mojila Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 I was curious how this Orient Bidding system. How it stands up with ACOL, 2/1 and SAYCI just stumble at reading Bridgeguys.com . Has anybody experience with this biddingsystem. mojila Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Didn't we all invent this system in our minds in our teens or early twenties? Anyway, hopeless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Didn't we all invent this system in our minds in our teens or early twenties? Anyway, hopeless.Yes but hopefully most of us came up with something better than this. Opening BidsArtificial 1C 12 - 13Artificial 1D 14 - 15Artificial 1H 16 - 17Artificial 1S 18 - 19Artificial 1NT 20+ It is much better to show shape first and then refine the strength later, because:- The strength of your hand will change later on as you discover a fit (or misfit), hear partner bidding a suit where you a fitting honour (or shortness), hear RHO (or LHO) bidding a suit in which you have a tenace. So trying to express the strength of the hand immediately is futile - unless your hand is balanced, since balanced hands are less likely to reevaluate. This is one of the reasons why sensible bidding systems usually have one or more narrow-range opening for balanced hands, while the openings for unbalanced hands are wide ranging.- Showing a distributional feature helps partner evaluate his hand also.- Showing length in a particular suit allows partner to preempt if he has a weak hand with a good fit.- In competitive auctions partner will often make LOTT based decisions. So he needs to know your trump length, not your point count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 It is much better to show shape first and then refine the strength later, because:So how about something like: Opening BidsArtificial 1C Some 6-6 or better, strength unknownArtificial 1D Some 6-5, strength unknownArtificial 1H Some 5-5 or 5-4, strength unknownArtificial 1S some 4432, strength unknownArtificial 1NT any 4333, strength unknown <g, d, & r> 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) I actually thought of something like that: Pass=4+ hearts, 3- spades1♣=4+spades, 3- hearts1♦=no 4cM, no 6cm1♥=6+ clubs1♠=6+diamonds1NT=both majors It probably won't be quite playable but I think it is a lot better than the Orient System. Edit: the 1♦ definition was wrong. Edited April 22, 2015 by helene_t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojila Posted April 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 Helen Opening Bids Artificial 1C 12 - 13 Artificial 1D 14 - 15 Artificial 1H 16 - 17 Artificial 1S 18 - 19 Artificial 1NT 20+ in response Responder immediately knows level of bidding. Game ,Partial, Slam, GS Whether Interference or not 1♣ - 13 points responder has 13-14 points there is game so Will bid 1N ..Notrump is the game force. Opener will show next Longer suite 5 carder or more... wen opener shows longer suite responder reevaluateshis/her hand Adds Shortness points to his (HCP+Distribution)+ shortness. Main thing is very first openers bid Responder can judge Level of bid. e.g. Partia, Game, Slam, GS . mojila Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 I actually thought of something like that: Pass=4+ hearts, 3- spades1♣=4+spades, 3- hearts1♦=4cM, no 6cm1♥=6+ clubs1♠=6+diamonds1NT=both majors It probably won't be quite playable but I think it is a lot better than the Orient System. At least the Orient System can open every hand -- this scheme leaves out an awful lot of shapes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glen Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 Opening Bids Artificial 1C 12 - 13 Artificial 1D 14 - 15 Artificial 1H 16 - 17 Artificial 1S 18 - 19 Artificial 1NT 20+ in response Responder immediately knows level of bidding. Game ,Partial, Slam, GS Whether Interference or not ...You hold:♠: 98765♥: 2♦: AQ65♣: A82 Partner opens 1♣ 12-13 any shape. How is it that responder "immediately knows level of bidding"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojila Posted April 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 You hold:♠: 98765♥: 2♦: AQ65♣: A82 Partner opens 1♣ 12-13 any shape. How is it that responder "immediately knows level of bidding"? Partner Open 12-13 1♣ What you have 8 =2 Aces 2 =Queen 1 for spade fifth card (any card above 4 one point for each card) 2 singleton Heart_________ 13 now partner open show 13 point so you both have 13+13 = 26 ( If you do not count singleton right away than your point count is 11 So 13 + 11 (yours)= combined count is 23-24 range in Game range. so 1♣-P- You can bid 1♦ cheapest suite... when partner shows strain you can invite. ) You will bid 1N which is GF in this system, Opener now will NAME longest suite 5 carder if no 5 carder than 4 carder ... than decide the strain. mojila Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojila Posted April 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 In this system positive response and negative response Notrump is positive response and Cheapest suite is negative response. Bids and rebids Author suggest Formula type no other cooked bids. Opening Bids Artificial 1ß Artificial 1® Artificial 1© Artificial 1™ Artificial 1NTPoint Range 12 - 13 14 - 15 16 - 17 18 - 19 20+ Original ConceptsS. Asghar Hassan(1998)- Point showing artificial limit suit opening bids, any shape- 1NT = Any distribution, not necessarily balanced- Combined Strength Count as mandatory basis for playable contract arrival- Modified hand evaluation method: single yardstick for both balanced & anddistributional hands mojila Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glen Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 You hold:♠: 98765♥: 2♦: AQ65♣: A82 Partner opens 1♣ 12-13 any shape. How is it that responder "immediately knows level of bidding"? Partner Open 12-13 1♣ What you have 8 =2 Aces 2 =Queen 1 for spade fifth card (any card above 4 one point for each card) 2 singleton Heart_________ 13 now partner open show 13 point so you both have 13+13 = 26 ( If you do not count singleton right away than your point count is 11 So 13 + 11 (yours)= combined count is 23-24 range in Game range. so 1♣-P- You can bid 1♦ cheapest suite... when partner shows strain you can invite. ) You will bid 1N which is GF in this system, Opener now will NAME longest suite 5 carder if no 5 carder than 4 carder ... than decide the strain. mojilaOpener has one of two hands: ♠ K♥ KQ54♦ K32♣ J6543 or ♠ AKT43♥ 543♦ KJ32♣ J See the level that the first hand should reach compared to the second hand. It is impossible for responder to know what that level is without knowing the degree of suit fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojila Posted April 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 Hi Glen First and fore most am not expert am mediocre level player What I read inwww.Bridgeguys.com about Orient system I read all sections about 8-9I though it was worth reading and has some merits. Like wise Long long time agoMr. Joshi's Bidding system which was very prevalent in 1950s in Borivalli are of BombayAlso has worthwhile merits. Though I do not see Joshi mentioned in BridgeguyBut Dr. Ali Asghar in UK in 1998.Both hands have 12 points.... IF partner Adds his HCP to 12 if Total less than 23 than there is partial 2 level He can not bid 1N GF has to bid cheapest suite 1 Diamond. Combined 23-24 it is 3 level playable combined 26-27 it is 4 level playable Now as 12 points opening bid is 1 Club... if Responder ADDs his HCP and Total is 26(-27 ) e.g. 12+14 he should bid 1 notrump if not in game zone than he should bid Cheapest suite that is 1 diamond with 1 notrump opener knows GF shows his 5 card if not 5 card suite bids 4 card suite. say Responder bid 1N than with 1st hand will bid 2 Cluband second hand will bid 2 spades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 At least the Orient System can open every hand -- this scheme leaves out an awful lot of shapes!Sorry 1d should beNo 4cM and no 6cmThat way everything is covered I think 1N is overloaded. Use one of the 2-openings for junk with both majors so 1N shows some values. Say 8+. Actualy it may be more fun to open all junk hands at the 2-level so that the 1-level opening show values. Lorenzo twos for a starter. Maybe better:2♣=balanced'ish2♦=one suit, could be a 5cM. No paradox response, just 2♥ p/c, 2nt strong relay and everything else is to play.2♥=majors.2♠=3-4 spades with a longer minor2NT=4 hearts + 6m3♣=minors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 Mojila: I would suggest Vienna Club. Maybe modernized with SA 2-openings and a natural 1nt opening, probably 15-17 is easiest. And use normal HCP. That system also identifies GF or sign off immediately and it gives a lot of shape information when you don't open 1c. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojila Posted April 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 Hi Helen.. Thank you will see I am just intermediate player and play SACY, 2/1 ....This was by chance I came across and read. Some Concept are scientifically sound.With First bid To show Total Strength of hand was introduced by Bessel... Culbertson...(4n,5N) ...and in 1998 Dr. Asghar introduced in UK.Unfortunately many of his writings were on internet only. Some part Archived at Bridgeguys site. Appreciate your suggestion and will look Vienna Club system. Thanks Mojila :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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