To slam or not to slam

[manudude03]

[hv=pc=n&w=skt6h8da94cak9832&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=1sp2cp2sp3sp4sp]133|200[/hv]

 

nv/nv IMPs.

Standard 2/1 stuff, 2S promises 6. Partner had a serious 3NT or non-serious cues available. What do you do now?

 

If you bid 4N (RKC), partner bids 5C showing 1 KC. Do you persist?

 

If you then bid 5D to ask for the ♠Q, it will follow 5D-(X)-5H-(X) partner showing the ♠Q and ♥K. Now do you bid the slam?

[kuhchung]

If you bid 4N (RKC), partner bids 5C showing 1 KC. Do you persist?

 

If you then bid 5D to ask for the ♠Q, it will follow 5D-(X)-5H-(X) partner showing the ♠Q and ♥K. Now do you bid the slam?

 

:blink:

 

You're drunk and you're not sure if you should be driving. Should you drive?

 

You turn the key and start driving. Should you keep driving?

[manudude03]

:blink:

 

You're drunk and you're not sure if you should be driving. Should you drive?

 

You turn the key and start driving. Should you keep driving?

 

Well, maybe I'm drunk on the feeling, but let's just say I thought it was clear, and some very good players disagreed.

[masse24]

Partner had . . . non-serious cues available.

 

Yet partner failed to offer even a non-serious cue-bid. Hmmm. What sort of dreck must partner hold that he refuses to even allow for moderate slam interest from me?

Something like this comes to mind:

 

♠QJxxxx ♥KQx ♦QJx ♣x :blink:

 

Are there hands I would disregard partner's suggestion we not explore slam? Absolutely. This ain't it.

 

Pass 4♠.

[mgoetze]

Well, the way I play, partner needs a pretty awful hand to bid 4♠. Specifically, it would be pretty surprising if he had a singleton club. On the other hand, he is pretty unlikely to have 3 of them. With a combined 18+ red cards, the opps are going to be forced into the bidding eventually, no? So let's say parter has 2 clubs, and we'll say it's not Qx as that would be too easy. Furthermore let's say the opponents are mean and lead a diamond. We need to draw trumps and ruff a club and then still have a dummy entry. If trumps are 2-2, no problem, but if they are 3-1, we need the opp with the 3rd trump to also have 3 clubs. And of course we need clubs to be 3-2 in the first place, which I'll rate above 68% (again, neither opponent bid) but certainly below 100%.

 

TBH it seems like what I think about my opponents is going to decide my call here.

[mike777]

easy pass of 4s

 

sounds like pard has:

 

AQxxxx...Kxx...Qxx...x

 

unless pard is allowed to open a weak 2spades with that :)

 

but then give pard:

 

AQxxxx...KJx...Qxx...x

[WesleyC]

I don't understand why West didn't involve partner in the decision by splintering with 4H over 2S.

 

Personally, I would be planning to pass 4S. But even if you're crazy enough to force to slam opposite a minimum, why not at least pretend your playing a partnership game?

[Fluffy]

I also though 4♥ previous round was clear, but would we accept a sing off?, I don't think so.

 

All we need for slam is ♠Axxxxx in front and good breaks on the blacks. I would go to slam unless 2 aces are missing.

[Cyberyeti]

Does partner have AQxxxx, Kxx, Qx, xx where slam ain't great or does he have AQJxxx, Kx, xx, Qxx where it's virtually cold, you don't know because you wasted the space below 4♠.

 

I'm no 2/1 expert, but how many clubs did 2♣ show ? and what would 3♣ or 4♣ over 2♠ show ? 4♥ might be an alternative, but really you want partner to focus on his club holding.

 

Basically, you're in a pure guess situation now.

[mike777]

assuming we are permitted to open 2s with example one...that is out.

 

if 3s is slam try and it is for me...then hand 2 is pretty good, given my 2spade bid, I will try 4c

[rhm]

I am drunk.

It is hard to construct a hand where slam has no play at all. (Partner could have the ace of hearts and a queen high suit for example)

 

On more normal layouts:

 

If partner has a singleton club at worst the slam will depend on a decent trump break and clubs 3-3

If partner has three clubs the slam will depend on clubs 2-2.

If partner has two clubs the slam is always better than even.

 

The slam could be very good.

For example if partner has the spade jack or a seventh spade and a singleton club partner can ruff two clubs and the slam is odds on.

As opener holding only one key card where my long suit is trumps, I would rarely start cue bidding, expecting partner to continue and playing me for one key card anyway if that is sufficient.

But then I am no expert on this serious / non-serious business.

 

Overall the slam should be bid.

 

Rainer Herrmann

[mcphee]

It seems to me in order to make 12 tricks partner must have the A of trumps when they lead D. If no A of trumps he needs a stiff Q of clubs with the suit 3/3 to bring in 12. On a real bad day he has Q empty 6th and the AK of H and you are in a bad way.Lets give him that Qxxxxx AKQ xxx x and slam is not at all safe although it does have a chance. Yet if this is the hand type he has no way do I want to reach 6. 6 would depend on 2/2 trump and even then might not make with a possible club upper cut. After a raise to 3S, which for me implies at least a red suit control I would not cue bid H. I confess I would bid over 4S but would have to give up in fear we do not have the A of trump. I am going to feel terrible if 5S fails but so be it.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

I am going via KC, ask for the Queen, bid slam with, sign of without.

 

I also believe, that 3S is really demanding cue bids, and due to this

you could argue I have to respect partners decision, but clubs can easily

run, so I would go for it.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Fluffy]

Does partner have AQxxxx, Kxx, Qx, xx where slam ain't great or does he have AQJxxx, Kx, xx, Qxx where it's virtually cold, you don't know because you wasted the space below 4♠.

 

I'm no 2/1 expert, but how many clubs did 2♣ show ? and what would 3♣ or 4♣ over 2♠ show ? 4♥ might be an alternative, but really you want partner to focus on his club holding.

 

Basically, you're in a pure guess situation now.

 

Slam is great IMO on first hand. Basically any hand with 6 spades and ♠A will make slam above 50% I think.

 

I disagree with you about focusing on clubs. AKxxxx is a self suficent side suit. Whatever partner holds you can always play for 5 tricks and no loser. When I have that suit I always asume it is solid and move from there.

[Cyberyeti]

Slam is great IMO on first hand. Basically any hand with 6 spades and ♠A will make slam above 50% I think.

 

I disagree with you about focusing on clubs. AKxxxx is a self suficent side suit. Whatever partner holds you can always play for 5 tricks and no loser. When I have that suit I always asume it is solid and move from there.

 

Sorry, slam is horrible on the first hand on a diamond lead (which you're going to get and the K will be offside with the double) which removes your side entry, you need spades 2-2 or stiff J and clubs 3-2 I think.

 

Were you talking about the odds before the subsequent action ?

[eagles123]

I think we can tell a lot about partners hand from his lack of non serious cue

 

I reckon

 

AQJxxx

KXx

Xx

Xx

 

That's my guess anyway :)

[Cyberyeti]

I think we can tell a lot about partners hand from his lack of non serious cue

 

I reckon

 

AQJxxx

KXx

Xx

Xx

 

That's my guess anyway :)

 

That's probably a 2♠ opener, and also makes the slam decent. The key card is J♠ in that case meaning you can safely ruff a club high, add the ♥/♦J or Q and maybe the club J and remove the ♠ J and it's far less good, of course add the Q♣ and it's excellent.

[kuhchung]

I would pass. I don't know if my point went over everyone's hand, or if my point is invalid, but it's simply this:

 

You bid keycard, find you are off one keycard, and don't know if you want to bid slam. Maybe instead of starting the car, and then wondering if you should be driving, you should have consulted a good friend first.

[ggwhiz]

I would pass. I don't know if my point went over everyone's hand, or if my point is invalid, but it's simply this:

 

You bid keycard, find you are off one keycard, and don't know if you want to bid slam. Maybe instead of starting the car, and then wondering if you should be driving, you should have consulted a good friend first.

 

Very valid in that if you bid 4nt and find a KC AND the Queen not bidding slam is a criminal lack of foresight.

 

I would pass 4♠ based mostly on partnership style and maintain that trust. My partner guarantees a worm over there.

[mikeh]

That's probably a 2♠ opener, and also makes the slam decent. The key card is J♠ in that case meaning you can safely ruff a club high, add the ♥/♦J or Q and maybe the club J and remove the ♠ J and it's far less good, of course add the Q♣ and it's excellent.

I suspect that the great bulk of NA experts would see this as a 1♠ opening bid: a LTC of 7 and 3 controls make it one for me, given that the spade J is working. Put the J in a minor, and it is a weak 2. Put it in hearts, and it is borderline, but I'd weak two (with trepidation)

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&w=skt6h8da94cak9832&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=1sp2cp2sp3sp4sp]133|200|

nv/nv IMPs. Standard 2/1 stuff, 2S promises 6. Partner had a serious 3NT or non-serious cues available. What do you do now?[/hv]

IMO, 4N = 10, 6♠ = 9, Pass = 8. Worth a try,

If you bid 4N (RKC), partner bids 5C showing 1 KC. Do you persist?

IMO, 5♦ = 10, 6♠ = 9, 5♠ = 7. In for a penny...

If you then bid 5D to ask for the ♠Q, it will follow 5D-(X)-5H-(X) partner showing the ♠Q and ♥K. Now do you bid the slam?

IMO, 6♠ = 10, 5♠ = 9. A close decision. You've made a strong slam-try and established that partner holds ♠Q; so 5♠ would say that ♥K doesn't excite you. The ball would then be in partner's court -- provided you don't take too long to bid 5♠ :)

[Fluffy]

Sorry, slam is horrible on the first hand on a diamond lead (which you're going to get and the K will be offside with the double) which removes your side entry, you need spades 2-2 or stiff J and clubs 3-2 I think.

 

Were you talking about the odds before the subsequent action ?

 

You play ♠AQ and the ruff a club, making whenever clubs are 3-2 except when doubleton club is with ♠Jxx or spades are 4-0, I think this is above average, specially taking opps silence into account.

[masse24]

Maybe . . .you should have consulted a good friend first.

 

Like, um . . . your partner?! This was my point as well, and is why my earlier "guess" at partner's hand lacked a keycard. Of course, the OP stated that partner holds both a key and the trump Q.

I do, however, find 4NT far easier to bid "knowing" the responses in advance. ;)

Partner has trash because he said so. Any action I might take subsequent to a 4NT ask is immaterial since the auction stops at 4♠.

[Lovera]

It strange but how it is posted this one seemed an open problem (i.e. we already know about Q+K before bidding for Q). Than investigate under 5 doesn't cost anything (fourthemore we can have some datum) and we can figure QJxxxx of trump+A of heart (instead A of spade - ambigous situation). I don't exclude 5♥(=interrogative) to clear.

[PhilKing]

I would pass, but it depends how you use non-serious.

 

My view is that bidding 4♠ shows a horrible hand for slam. ♠AQJxxx ♥Kxx ♦xx ♣xx, may be a minimum opening, but it's quite a decent hand if partner is interested in slam, so I would bid a non-serious 3NT and then cue 4♥. Partner can still bid 4♠ if he needs me to have a good hand in context.