bridgeboy Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 I held this hand in a club game KT8QT43228732 Partner opens 2NT (21-22, may have 5 card major) I think it should be clear to go for game but there is a problem. I suppose it is clearly better to play in a major game if there is a fit (maybe even a moysian is better). However, I think all the methods I know of over a 2NT opening cannot find all the possible fits , be it, Puppet stayman, Romex or natural stayman with smolen. You have to either transfer to H (risk missing a 5-3 S fit) or stayman (unable to show 5 card H later) My query is whether there is an easy or simple way to overcome this problem and find all your major fits if possible. My instinct is that it is not really possible to do that below 3NT but maybe if you are willing to play 4NT sometimes when there is no fit, it might be possible. No way to prove this though. Thanks for comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 With this hand I transfer and then : 2NT 3♦ 3♥ : No ♥ fit, no 5 spades3♠ : 5♠ no ♥ fit3NT : ♥ fit, ♠ control4♣ :♥ fit, ♣ control4♦ : ♥ fit, ♦ control4♥ : Great fit, all controls If I have 5♠ then : 2NT 3♥ 3♠ : No ♠ fit, no 5 hearts3[NT] : 5♥ no ♠ fit4♣ :♠ fit, ♣ control4♦ : ♠ fit, ♦ control4♥ : ♠ fit, ♥ control4♠ : Great fit, all controls This simple and effective. Alain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 With this hand I transfer and then : 2NT 3♦ 3♥ : No ♥ fit, no 5 spades Alain Is this the way responder will bid with 4-5 in the majors too? Then over your 3♥ (no fit), he bids 3♠ showing 4? Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 With this hand I transfer and then : 2NT 3♦ 3♥ : No ♥ fit, no 5 spades Alain Is this the way responder will bid with 4-5 in the majors too? Then over your 3♥ (no fit), he bids 3♠ showing 4? Roland Yes ! 2NT 3♦3♥ 3♠ = 5♥ + 4♠ and the opener cue bid with ♠ fit (which you can improve by 2NT 3♦3♥ 3NT = 5♥ + 4♠ and the opener cue bid with ♠ fit and 2NT 3♦3♥ 3♠ transfer to 3NT in order to be able to play from the big hand) and.... 2NT 3NT = 5♠ and 4♥ (better to not forget it at the table ! ) :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 Here, "fit" should read four card support, otherwise we may play in a 5-3 fit while the 4-4 fit would have been better. (Maybe not essential when responder transfers to spades since he denies a four-card hearts). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 I play similar to what Joker plays. But with 5-4M I go through 3♣... You'll never miss a Major fit, but you might end up too high by superaccepting the transfer. These things happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 I play that any subsequent bidding on 2NT is forcing game so that it's impossible for me to play 3♥ or 3♠ ! It's a choice and I'm happy with it ! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 I play that any subsequent bidding on 2NT is forcing game so that it's impossible for me to play 3♥ or 3♠ ! It's a choice and I'm happy with it ! :lol: me to ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 I play that any subsequent bidding on 2NT is forcing game so that it's impossible for me to play 3♥ or 3♠ ! It's a choice and I'm happy with it ! :lol: me to ;) So your bidding... 2NT-(pass)-3♥* is game force, where 3♥ is jacoby? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 I held this hand in a club game KT8QT43228732 Partner opens 2NT (21-22, may have 5 card major) I'd be content with Stayman, raising either major to four, or bidding 3♥ over 3♦. Yes, I could play a 43 spade fit instead of a 53 heart fit, but that may not be terrible (may even be good) with this hand. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 There is a version of puppet stayman where you respond 3H with either 4 or 5 hearts and less than 4 spades (I guess you'd respond 3NT with both majors). This would allow you to ask for 3 hearts over 2NT-3C-3D by bidding 3S, and it would still allow you to play in 3M after a Jacoby-transfer (unless opener superaccepts). This would work well with the given hand but wouldn't solve the problem with 5 spades and 3 hearts. Is there anybody out there who actually plays the structure I sketched above, I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 I play that any subsequent bidding on 2NT is forcing game so that it's impossible for me to play 3♥ or 3♠ ! It's a choice and I'm happy with it ! ;) me to B) So your bidding... 2NT-(pass)-3♥* is game force, where 3♥ is jacoby? The only way to play 3M is if opener doesn't have support... Whenever he has support, he won't accept the transfer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 i would just transfer and bid 3N. I guess im oldschool now lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 I play that any subsequent bidding on 2NT is forcing game so that it's impossible for me to play 3♥ or 3♠ ! It's a choice and I'm happy with it ! ;) me to B) So your bidding... 2NT-(pass)-3♥* is game force, where 3♥ is jacoby? Yes, it's a common treatment nowadays in France and Belgium ! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 opposite a 20-21 or a 21-22 2NT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 I play 2NT = 20-21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 So what's the idea? Always play the good major-suit game and forget about sign-offs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Well, you can still try a sign-off. Partner often accepts your transfer and if he superaccepts, maybe game will make. If he shows 5 of the other major, too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 The idea is : Knowing the fit at the 3 level is easier for further slam tries and control verifications (Especially for limit slam hands where fit is important). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Did I miss something here? Are we not always bidding some game here across from a 2nt (20 -21) opening bid? If not could someone please explain, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Did I miss something here? Are we not always bidding some game here across from a 2nt (20 -21) opening bid? If not could someone please explain, thanks. The question arose not from the shown responder's hand, but from the statement that ANY bid opposite a strong 2NT opening bid is game force. That implies if partner bids 3♥ or 3♦ (jacoby) game must be reached. This has implications for superaccepts and tke like (since no fear of partner passing), and implications for the meaning of 2N-3♥-3♠, since opener knows the auction is game force, he could choose to rebid 3NT instead of complete the transfer with a singleton or double spade, for instance. I do not play jacoby is game force, but I do play that 3♣ stayman is game force. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 i would just transfer and bid 3N. I guess im oldschool now lol. I don't think that makes you old school; I imagine that most players would have bid Stayman 40 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 So what's the idea? Always play the good major-suit game and forget about sign-offs? It's about slam bidding. Only if partner doesn't have support, he'll just bid 3M (accepting) or 3NT (with 5 cards in the other M). Usually you have a Major fit or a playable 3-level contract when the transfer isn't accepted. The average HCP of responder is somewhere around 6.5 HCP, so you should be able to handle game in most situations, but if there's slam we want to use the little bidding space we have left as good as possible. The way I play it, Jacoby transfers aren't GF, but they usually turn out that way. If opener accepts the transfer, responder can pass... Other bids are GF, obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 If opener accepts the transfer, responder can pass... Other bids are GF, obviously. Same for me of course because the opener's hand is limited ! :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 The way I play it, Jacoby transfers aren't GF, but they usually turn out that way. If opener accepts the transfer, responder can pass... Other bids are GF, obviously. Well Joker says ANY bid over 2NT is game force, and you agreed with that. Of course, any bid over 2NT usually turns out to end up in game. There are two reasons for this, usually responder bids again, and it is asking a lot to stop exactly in 3♥ or 3♠ and that be the precise right spot. On the other hand, we are all familar with the rule that auctions that go... (2NT)-P-(P)-? Should probably be doubled without much regards for what is in your hand. If you play against people who know this rule, and you are broke, you might not want to stick it out in 2NT after 2NT-P to you. When I bid jacoby and pass partenrs response, i am hoping to go down less than I would have in 2NT, in most instances. If I think I can make 3, I will obviously be trying for four in most cases. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.