Help bidding this grand

[The Casual]

http://tinyurl.com/n5lgq2h

 

With the 1♣ opening and 1♠ overcall how would you get to the grandslam? I doubt I can bid 7♣ over partners 5♣ bid (I was thinking he had more like 7 solid trump). I was hoping my 3♠ bid was something like "tell me more partner", 3NT being a stopper of some kind (not expected with e's holding) or maybe 4♥ with honour doubleton, is this correct?? Anyway I wasn't quite expecting 13 tricks off the top (more like 7 trump and 5 outside), what do you think? Also what would be the difference in meaning between a 4♣ bid and partner's 5♣ bid?

[Cyberyeti]

To me, 5♣ is a lot of clubs, 4♣ isn't quite so many.

 

From E's point of view, partner must have a side card outside the club suit or he'd have opened 3/4/5♣ (would an opening 4♣ have been natural or NAMYATS style ?) and it could easily be a 3 card major suit holding (wouldn't you preempt 1138 say). A singleton heart could easily be all you need to ruff out the suit.

 

From W's PoV, I'd read 3♠ as either "I stop the spades but not the diamonds and am looking for 3N" or a club raise. I would have bid 4♦ over 3♠ saying "I don't stop the diamonds but do control them, and have enough clubs to be confident here", now it continues 4♥(cue)-5♦(void, no spade control)-5♠(spade control no K♥)-5N(which in style for us says "I have something I haven't yet been able to show" which will be K♥ or Q♠ which should be enough for the grand to be bid.

[mike777]

perhaps just open 5c then 7c?

[hrothgar]

perhaps just open 5c then 7c?

 

Would not open 1♣

 

I would start with a high level preempt and would not get to the grand because we wouldn't be able to place the Queen of Spades

[Cyberyeti]

perhaps just open 5c then 7c?

 

If you open 5♣ partner won't bid 7 as you could easily have xx, xx, x, AKJ10xxxx where it's no play.

 

1♣ followed by 5♣ and partner will assume something outside and probably bid it.

[mike777]

I fully grant bidding 7c is a bit of a guess, I like that long h suit and lots of entries.

 

PRefer 1c then 5c to be more outside but that may be old fashion. Sort of a 3 loser hand with few hcp.

 

I would 100% bid 7c after 1c then 5c :)

[vinchy]

I would not have followed the same bidding pattern, but why not 4♠ after partner's 3♠? There's no way he will pass, and in this situation it communicates what partner needed to know.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

the problem with 3S is, that there is not much room between 3S and 3NT, but

given that 3C does not necesarrily show 6+, it is hard to come up with a good

alternative to 3S.

Seeing both hands a neg. X may have worked better, but having a forcing 2H bid

av. and a 6 card suit, 2H is obvious.

 

The way the auction went, you did well to reach 6C.

 

You may reach 7C, after a 5C opening bid, but a 1C opening bid is not wrong.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Zelandakh]

Seeing both hands a neg. X may have worked better, but having a forcing 2H bid

av. and a 6 card suit, 2H is obvious.

I was wondering about this too - what would everyone think Responder was showing if they used a double-cue-heart sequence? For example 1♣ - (1♠) - X; 2♣ - 2♠; 3♣ - 3♥.

 

Aside from the theoretical, I think worrying about system for hands with an 8PT opener that is being shown as a minimum opposite a SJS Responder should probably not be a high priority - I am fairly sure the OP's system has more important system holes. As a further aside, I am not fond of the 1♠ overcall - 2♠ or some 2-suited jump seem to make life much more interesting for E-W.

[perko90]

I prefer a 5♣ opening preempt.

But whether it starts with a preempt or the way the auction presented started, I think getting to a Grand is tough.

 

On the given auction, after 5♣, E will be counting tricks. A reasonable assumption is that W has AKxxxxx and an outside high card. But that's only 12 tricks. A 13th could come from finding Kxx in diamonds or setting up the H suit. But you could just as easily have an unavoidable H loser, like xx xx Kx AKJxxxx. Too much of a guess to bid the Grand. And if you back up the auction more, second guessing E's reasonable 3♠ bid seems like "resulting" it to me.

[jdonn]

I think west is too good for 3♣, whether you play it as forcing or not (I think non-forcing is standard). I would rebid 4♣. East could essentially raise that directly to 7♣ with his monster, with whatever science along the way you feel like.

[WesleyC]

1C is clear for me at these colours.

 

I'm also happy with 3C. The 8c suit is huge, but holding minimum high cards and ♠Qxx I'm happy to take a conservative position. 3C also leaves the most room for partner to describe their hand.

 

5C is a reasonable choice if it shows extra distribution and club length - basically a 5C opening with a bit outside. I'm also assuming that 4C would've been N/F.

 

Over 5C East, can tell that grand-slam must be a huge chance. Even a sub-minimum hand with a singleton heart such as [xx x xxx AKJxxxx] makes the grand 80%+. Almost any full strength hand should make it lay down.

 

If I wasn't confident with my agreements at that point i'd be happy to just blast 7C. Not investigating grand-slam at all is definitely a mistake.

[Lovera]

I think west is too good for 3♣, whether you play it as forcing or not (I think non-forcing is standard). I would rebid 4♣. East could essentially raise that directly to 7♣ with his monster, with whatever science along the way you feel like.

I too think 4♣ should be a better bidding partner following with 4NT(=RKCB 3014-club trump), 5NT(=2 keys+void). It has to consider that with 5 (presumibly) entries in dummy we can get grand easyly.(Lovera)

[aguahombre]

Seems like once we learned Opener has all those clubs and didn't open 5C, we should just bid the darn grand.

[Lovera]

..It are examples that justify this opening : ♠ - ♥ 2 ♦ KJ98 ♣ KQJ98742 , ♠ Q83 ♥ 4 ♦ - ♣ AK10987654 , ♠ - ♥ - ♦ KQJ87542 ♣ QJ1032 , ♠ Q763 ♥ - ♦ 2 ♣ AQJ108642.. [9 or 10 tricks principally from longness] (From "Il libro completo del bridge di gara by Guido Barbone pagg. 53-54 Open bidding of five in a minor suit).