Cyberyeti Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Say I want to psyche a conventional bid to understate my values, because I think it will enable me to better describe my hand on the next round. Partner will alert my bid, opps will ask and it will look like I've been woken up by the UI. Is there anything I can do to protect myself - normal F2F bridge with no screens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 If you think that this auction will allow you to better describe certain hands, why not include it in the convention? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted March 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 If you think that this auction will allow you to better describe certain hands, why not include it in the convention? Because it was on the fly with somebody I almost never play with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulg Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Is there anything I can do to protect myself - normal F2F bridge with no screens.Yes - don't do it :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMB1 Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Is there anything I can do to protect myself - normal F2F bridge with no screens. Pick your oppo or TD! If you told me "I knew what I was doing when I bid <whatever>, I knew what the agreement was, as partner correctly explained, my bid was a psyche" - I would probably believe you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Pick up your score card and pretend to write a score but write down that you are deliberately opening asystemically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted March 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Pick your oppo or TD! If you told me "I knew what I was doing when I bid <whatever>, I knew what the agreement was, as partner correctly explained, my bid was a psyche" - I would probably believe you. Is that because it's me and you know I do that sort of thing ? because it seems an obvious way to cheat. The hand in question was something like x, A10x, 109xx, AKxxx and the auction started red v green 1(precision)♥-(1S)- I had no fit jump available and was prepared to bet I was going to get 4♠ on my left, I felt I was better off after a 3♣ mixed raise as either a) partner would bid 5♥ on his own and I would bid 6 or b) partner would pass and I'd bid 5♣. I thought it was more difficult to disentangle if I bid the technically correct 2♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted March 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Pick up your score card and pretend to write a score but write down that you are deliberately opening asystemically. That's what I'd like to do, but wasn't sure if legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 That's what I'd like to do, but wasn't sure if legal.It might not be. Partner can see what you are doing, and that might be illegal communication if you have ever done it before. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 That's what I'd like to do, but wasn't sure if legal. I don't think it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Which law does it break, if you do it in such a way that partner can't tell you're doing it? Of course, it might not be very useful, because the TD might not give it any weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Which law does it break, if you do it in such a way that partner can't tell you're doing it? Which, the writing or the bid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Which, the writing or the bid?Whichever one you think is illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Whichever one you think is illegal. Well, the bid is not Illegal, but since it will appear that the OP was woken up by partner's explanation the OP will be ruled against. As for the writing, it is irregular and can be considered a form of communication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinidad Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 As for the writing, it is irregular and can be considered a form of communication.So is picking your nose (or coughing ;) ). The fact that something can be considered a form of communication neither means that it will be considered a form of communication nor that it is a form of communication*. Rik * And by "communication" we mean "illegal communication with partner". Writing such s statement for the TD on your score card is obviously communication with the TD, but communicating with the TD is not illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 So is picking your nose (or coughing ;) ). The fact that something can be considered a form of communication neither means that it will be considered a form of communication nor that it is a form of communication*. Rik * And by "communication" we mean "illegal communication with partner". Writing such s statement for the TD on your score card is obviously communication with the TD, but communicating with the TD is not illegal.The fact that you are writing communicates to partner (no screens) that you are memorializing something. The fact that you are doing so at that moment communicates that you are noting something about the auction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 The fact that you are writing communicates to partner (no screens) that you are memorializing something. The fact that you are doing so at that moment communicates that you are noting something about the auction.Or that it suddenly occurred to you that you want to "memorialize" something about the previous hand, or write down something you need to remember to pick up for dinner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Or that it suddenly occurred to you that you want to "memorialize" something about the previous hand, or write down something you need to remember to pick up for dinner.OK, but how often does it happen? Seldom enough, I think, that writing during an auction can reasonably be assumed to be writing about the auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Well, the bid is not Illegal, but since it will appear that the OP was woken up by partner's explanation the OP will be ruled against. As for the writing, it is irregular and can be considered a form of communication.An irregularity is not, in general, illegal. Communication with partner by writing on your scorecard is illegal. If, however, Cyberyeti finds a way to follow his procedure without such communication, his actions are legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 While partner may notice that you're doing something unusual by writing during the auction, is he really likely to be able to guess why you're doing it? If he can't figure out what it's about, would it "demonstrably suggest" anything in particular to partner? However, I don't think this kind of prepared explanation is generally considered a legitimate process. For instance, I think people have in the past proposed something like this as a way of proving "I was always going to bid X" when you sense that you may get into a hesitation situation, but I've never heard of it actually being used. The only place I ever saw it actually suggested as a real feature of the game was in the book "Bridge at the Enigma Club", but that was a fantasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 The only place I ever saw it actually suggested as a real feature of the game was in the book "Bridge at the Enigma Club", but that was a fantasy. It was suggested once when Eddie Kantar was going to make a grand slam try (the reason he didn't bid a small slam) and was ruled against when partner signed off slowly in 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 It might not be. Partner can see what you are doing, and that might be illegal communication if you have ever done it before.Yes. I have done it myself but it is probably not a good idea unless you are very sure p won't notice or can't read anything into it. Which may be hard to prove to the TD. I have sometimes read about top players who did such things when playing with screens, but that is of course different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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