Would you pursue slam?

[The Casual]

http://tinyurl.com/pwjawfh

 

Would you go for slam and if so how? I expect most to say yes but tbh, while I wanted to, I didn't know how; slams after NT openings is not a strong area of mine =/.

[ahydra]

3D after 2H is normally played as natural and game forcing, after which East should love the look of his hand, despite it being minimum on points.

 

ahydra

[NickRW]

What ahydra said - with bells on.

 

Plus the west hand should have slam in the back of his/her mind even if the 1NT opener was a weak NT (note slam is just as good without the ♣K). 14 points all of which are control cards and a 6-4-2-1 shape is a powerful hand if at all fitting. And east is fitting.

[Zelandakh]

You have 14 high card points but with them coming in 6 controls the hand is worth considerably more for slam purposes. Add to that the singleton and you are not only in the slam zone but also have serious interest. If your heart suit was better you might consider ignoring the diamonds and responding 3♥ (or whatever sequence you use for a slamm 1-suiter) but on the actual hand showing both suits, as per the previous posters, seems the right approach. With a slightly weaker hand and good hearts you could also choose to make a 4♣ splinter rebid. There are several options for slam tries after 1NT and it is worth taking some time to work out the various options for different hand types within your preferred response structure. Sometimes such a review uncovers a hole in the methods that you can then cover using an otherwise unused sequence...

[The Casual]

Okay thanks for the responses. So after 1NT>2♦>2♥>3♦>? What are the meanings of East's bids in this position (cue bids maybe?)?

[mike777]

after 3d you need to set trumps for a start. :)

 

 

Pls note this is not easy as some may think.

 

 

for me 4c after 3d ...sets d as trumps and is a cuebid.

but I do not think this is 100% clear the best bid.

[WesleyC]

After:

1NT 2D

2H 3D

 

Without additional agreements, the continuations would be natural. 3H shows heart support, 3NT shows no interest in either red suit and other bids would suggest at least some interest in playing diamonds.

 

However, a simple improvement on this method inverts the meanings of 3M & 4m. Now all hands with a good fit for responder's minor suit start by bidding 3M, while the bids above 3NT show hands with slam interest and a fit for the major (but deny a primary fit for the minor).

 

The reason this is an improvement is that it keeps the auction below 3NT on the minor fit hands (where 3NT is still a likely final contract). While if you have a major fit, you will always end up in 4M anyways so going past 3NT is never a disaster. It also frees up the other 3 level bids to be NT 'probes' which might enable you to highlight a weakness and play in a 5/2 major fit or 4/4 minor fit instead.

[The Casual]

Okay, so far I can get up to 1NT>2♦>2♥>3♦>3♥>?

 

But after this I feel like West shouldn't just punt 4NT (RKCB), because they need to know about the diamonds. Could someone just spell it out to me and give the exact sequence from 1NT to 6H.

[mike777]

stop stop...

 

over 3d you have problem..

 

do not do not assume 3h is 1000% best.

[Cyberyeti]

stop stop...

 

over 3d you have problem..

 

do not do not assume 3h is 1000% best.

 

I think 3♥ is best, give partner A/xx in the blacks instead, it's now critical that you play the slam in hearts to protect your K♣.

[Zelandakh]

I think 3♥ is best, give partner A/xx in the blacks instead, it's now critical that you play the slam in hearts to protect your K♣.

I think best is a call to show the double fit. That is part of my 1NT structure (often posted, not made up for this hand!) but not standard for most. You could do it in standard methods by using 3♥ to agree one suit and 4m to agree the other. Then 4♥ could represent a double fit - but again, do not try this without discussion!

[WesleyC]

Okay, so far I can get up to 1NT>2♦>2♥>3♦>3♥>?

 

If 3H shows diamond support then count me in.

 

Otherwise, with such prime cards for hearts and diamonds, maybe 4H should show this hand?

[NickRW]

I think some of this thread has become a little esoteric for our original poster. Put yourself in the shoes of a relatively inexperienced East who has not had lengthy partnership discussions about the 3rd and subsequent rounds of bidding and the bidding has gone (East first):

 

1NT (15-17 bal)

2D (5 hearts, bid hearts partner)

2H (complying with your wishes)

3D (4 diamonds as well as 5 hearts, game forcing, possibly slammy or at least concerned that 3NT is not the best spot)

 

What now? Ah, I know, I can see an 8 card fit in hearts and a 9 card fit in diamonds. plus my diamonds are good, plus I don't have a spade stop and not much in clubs. Therefore I agree diamonds. 4♦. (That may not be the optimum continuation, but the reasoning is sound and easy to remember).

 

West can now do a bunch of things, but one of the most obvious is RKCB as from West's point of view there are no voids or suits without at least 2nd round control.

 

People can get more sophisticated as they learn. First thing is to recognise slam potential and get there somehow.

[Phil]

[quote name='Wesleyc'

 

However, a simple improvement on this method inverts the meanings of 3M & 4m. Now all hands with a good fit for responder's minor suit start by bidding 3M, while the bids above 3NT show hands with slam interest and a fit for the major (but deny a primary fit for the minor)

 

I don't see the upside. Using 3M as support for the minor is nothing but noise. I suppose in the actual auction you could play 3S as diamond support and 3H as either heart support or club concentration + diamond support with 3S being a punt to clarify opener.

 

I still prefer any four level call after 3D to confirm a heart and a diamond fit. The key to finding many of these slams is knowing about the double fit earlier.

 

Over an auction like 1N - transfer - accept- 3C the idea of 3M as coming in the minor is especially bad and I hope you aren't suggesting that.

[Zelandakh]

Over an auction like 1N - transfer - accept- 3C the idea of 3M as coming in the minor is especially bad and I hope you aren't suggesting that.

I think the idea was using step 1 to show minor support, so 3♦ in that auction. This is essentially what I do but within the context of second round transfers, so it is bidding the minor itself that shows support. It is not an unreasonable approach when you do not have that extra step.

[aguahombre]

Over an auction like 1N - transfer - accept- 3C the idea of 3M as coming in the minor is especially bad and I hope you aren't suggesting that.

I assumed he meant 3 of the other major. Or, do you think that is especially bad too?

[Zelandakh]

I assumed he meant 3 of the other major. Or, do you think that is especially bad too?

This possibility is a lot worse imho.

[The Casual]

I think some of this thread has become a little esoteric for our original poster. Put yourself in the shoes of a relatively inexperienced East who has not had lengthy partnership discussions about the 3rd and subsequent rounds of bidding and the bidding has gone (East first):

 

Thank you, indeed it is a bit beyond what my partner and I have discussed, our system does not go much further than a basic SA or 2/1 depending on what we feel like. We have essentially no discussion past the 3m bid (to show 5-4 GF) other than maybe 3NT to show no fit in either suit (or a preference to 3NT over minor game) and game signoffs in 4 & 5 ♥ & ♦ respectively.

[akwoo]

My bidding goes like this:

 

1N - 2♦

2♥ - 3♦

3♥(1) - 3♠(2)

4N(3) - et c.

 

(1) This shows heart support and slam interest. Heart support without slam interest bids 4♥ at this point. Other suits are cues in support of diamonds.

(2) Cue bid.

(3) At this point, 7N is stone dead cold (well - not quite, but close enough) if partner has all 4 key cards, and 6♥ is pretty good if partner has any 3. Time for RKCB.

[The Casual]

My bidding goes like this:

 

1N - 2♦

2♥ - 3♦

3♥(1) - 3♠(2)

4N(3) - et c.

 

(1) This shows heart support and slam interest. Heart support without slam interest bids 4♥ at this point. Other suits are cues in support of diamonds.

(2) Cue bid.

(3) At this point, 7N is stone dead cold (well - not quite, but close enough) if partner has all 4 key cards, and 6♥ is pretty good if partner has any 3. Time for RKCB.

 

Thanks, I like this sequence, very intuitive.

[Lovera]

Althoug 4♥ means good support in suit (infact we have a 6 keycard Blw) and more possibility to find four honors in heart/diamond. Why not 4NT by E (5♦=3 keys-5NT=all keys, 6♣=K or singleton ..) ?

[phoenix214]

To the question if your hand is worth a slam, try picturing what you need from partner? Basically HA, DA and you make it on good breaks, add in red queens and you want to be 6, CA and 7 looks good. I think playing w.o many agreements I would just blast the slam opp 15-17, just checking aces, to see if the slam is not too silly.

If you want to go more scientific, Maybe a self-splinter works best here? Basically telling partner that you have short clubs - it should carry about the same meaning as bidding diamonds.

Lets say it goes - 1NT-2!D, 2!H-4!C Short clubs, want to play hearts for slam. Partners hand is pretty good now, only CK is wasted but basically now he can see a slam opp 3 aces, so should go on.