which signal with Qxx in dummy?

[straube]

Partner leads K from AK holding. Suit contract and Qxx in dummy. Do you generally show an even number with 2 or 4? Or only show even with 2...discouraging with 3 or more?

[blackshoe]

Is your primary signal on partner's opening lead attitude or count? Or "You figure it out, partner"?

[straube]

Is your primary signal on partner's opening lead attitude or count? Or "You figure it out, partner"?

 

I guess my question would then be "Is it a better agreement to give attitude or count in this situation". I have a preference but pd has a

different preference and I'd like to see what is standard or what is better.

[PhantomSac]

Generally attitude but obviously depends on the situation.

[trevahound]

Partner leads K from AK holding. Suit contract and Qxx in dummy. Do you generally show an even number with 2 or 4? Or only show even with 2...discouraging with 3 or more?

 

We give what we consider count here, unless there's a strong reason not to, and we only show even (or encouragement) with two, and treat four as odd/discouragement. So, it's count as in 2 or fewer, or more than 2, not as in odd or even numbers. I bet you could call it attitude instead of count, and say we only encourage with 2 or fewer. You say tomato, I say parsnip.

[Zelandakh]

I think positive with 2 and negative with 4 unless it is clear that you cannot hold a doubleton or there are other indicators to the hand that suggest giving a different signal.

[Phil]

Count unless partner can't figure out 2 vs 4. Since we are looking for a ruff W 2 I suppose you can call this attitude If it suits you.

[foobar]

My inclination would be count. In the Vanderbilt, there were some pairs (including Meckwell IIRC), who give standard count at T1 in this specific situation.

 

We can leave such sophistication to the pros, but IMO, it isn't worth spending too much cycles thinking about hands that can be set only by a 2 vs. 4 count that must be determined at T1.

[straube]

My inclination would be count. In the Vanderbilt, there were some pairs (including Meckwell IIRC), who give standard count at T1 in this specific situation.

 

We can leave such sophistication to the pros, but IMO, it isn't worth spending too much cycles thinking about hands that can be set only by a 2 vs. 4 count that must be determined at T1.

 

I can see the advantage for attitude. It helps leader infer he can cash and give partner a ruff. The cost is that sometimes (when partner has 3 for instance and the method won't distinguish 3 from 4) he won't know that his other honor isn't cashing (where he might with count signals) and decides to wait for the suit to be lead from a different hand. This cost seems small to me because cashing, even safely, will let the Q set up. Is there a better argument for count?

[Vampyr]

but IMO, it isn't worth spending too much cycles thinking about hands that can be set only by a 2 vs. 4 count that must be determined at T1.

 

This happens kind of a lot. It is not a problem if, as mentioned here numerous times, you correctly give count with 2 but not with 4.

[akwoo]

The other reason for giving count is that this might be your only chance to give count in that suit, and 4 tricks later, after trump have been drawn and a count signal made in the third suit, knowing count in the first suit would allow inferring count in the fourth suit, which could be crucial information at that point.

 

I can't consistently make such an inference, so maybe this consideration should be left to the pros.

[blackshoe]

Count with 2, attitude otherwise. Unless you consider "high low with a doubleton" an attitude signal.

[Zelandakh]

Count with 2, attitude otherwise. Unless you consider "high low with a doubleton" an attitude signal.

This would be fun to play using standard count and reverse attitude. :huh:

[blackshoe]

I'm sure we can come up with all kinds of combinations that don't make sense. Should we bother?

[Vampyr]

This would be fun to play using standard count and reverse attitude. :huh:

 

VERY VERY popular method in London and probably all of England.

[Zelandakh]

VERY VERY popular method in London and probably all of England.

I think you missed the point. B-) With a doubleton you give a standard count signal - high. Without a doubleton you give reverse attitude signal, which most of the time will be negative - also high. The method itself is perfectly playable, just silly in the constellation of the post to which I was replying.