jerdonald Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 BBO forum, N-S Vul West holds the following hand: S. AKQJ7 H. A D. J6532 C. KT East is the dealer and the bidding goes. E S W N p 1H ? Should west bid 2 Hearts showing Spades and an undisclosed minor or double with the "Big Double"? Jerry D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 2♥ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 There are a lot of posters I'd love to ask what a que bid is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahydra Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 There are a lot of posters I'd love to ask what a que bid is. It's a Spanish convention used to mean "I didn't understand your previous call". :) ahydra 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 It's a Spanish convention used to mean "I didn't understand your previous call". :) Yes, I was thinking something along those lines... Anyway I like space-consuming bids to be pure, so I wouldn't cue bid with this hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 With the suit quality disparity and short suit honors, I also consider 1♠. But I do think it is too strong for that, so I will choose 2♥. If I double it will end up sounding like a strong one suiter, and we could lose the diamonds entirely. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 With the suit quality disparity and short suit honors, I also consider 1♠. But I do think it is too strong for that, so I will choose 2♥. If I double it will end up sounding like a strong one suiter, and we could lose the diamonds entirely. I am comfortable with the risk of getting the dummy when I overcall 1♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Doubling on a 5-5 (12) is generally a no-no, but if I did, it would look a lot like this - strong five card major, weak five card minor and a doubleton honor. All there's left to do is argue about strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmnka447 Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 I'm a 1 ♠ bidder also. Although you've got extras, the ♦ suit is just too poor to Michaels IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevahound Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 1♠ for me, and not at all ashamed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1cha Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Should west bid 2 Hearts showing Spades and an undisclosed minor or double with the "Big Double"? It depends on what you agreed with your partner. If you are the guys who play 2♥ as either weak or very strong, that's a perfect bid. Otherwise I'd rate the hand too strong for Michaels. I would double, and if partner bids ♣, change to ♠. This does not describe my hand well but will probably lead us to the right contract. Bidding ♠ and planning a ♦ rebid is the way to describe the shape but I doubt I will be able to describe the strength in that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 So a bunch of people are opting to overcall 1S with an 18 count that includes 5 solid and 5-5 and prime values as opposed to bidding 2H which shows 5-5? Consider my mind blown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 With the suit quality disparity and short suit honors, I also consider 1♠. But I do think it is too strong for that, so I will choose 2♥. If I double it will end up sounding like a strong one suiter, and we could lose the diamonds entirely.What would you do with 5242 shape and 7.5 PTs? Something like ♠AKQJ7 ♥32 ♦AQT5 ♣K6. Are you still worried about losing the diamonds (after X) or being too strong (for 1♠)? Given the weak diamonds, it seems to me reasonable to treat both of these hands the same way whatever that happens to be. That would bring X and bid back into the picture for many pairs. Despite the modern trend, this is too strong for 1♠ by me as well, so the discussion seems to me to revolve around whether to treat this diamond suit as a real 5 bagger or downgrade it to a good 4. Despite Justin's post arguing the former course, I am personally stil leaning towards the latter, so am hoping for some further input on this from other posters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Zel, I guess the question is what can be gained or lost. Michaels can gain if 3NT is down with 5♦ making - say if partner can provide ♦HHx or Hxxx but nothing in hearts. 3NT can easily go down: I can't hold up, opener obviously has entries anyway, and I don't expect nine cashers very often. Against that, showing 55 leaks information on the way to 3NT or 4♠. How often that will matter, I can't be sure, but it certainly seems nontrivial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 I think it is a little more complicated than that bill. Think about the likely auction. After 2♥ there is a strong chance partner will continue 3♣ (p/c). Over that we presumably bid 3♠ to show a strong hand with diamonds. This does not leave a great deal of space left over to explore 3NT. After a double, partner's most likely call is 2 of a minor. Now 2♠ is a less complete picture but provides more space. If we subsequently get to bid 3♦ we are surely better off, not to mentione when partner has a bust and we get to stop low. Against that, partner might advance the double with something like 3♣ and now we are probably worse off. As I wrote before, my instinct is that the good auctions for X against 2♥ outweigh the bad ones but I sense the opportunity to learn something here and hope the "senior" posters will chip on on this some more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 So a bunch of people are opting to overcall 1S with an 18 count that includes 5 solid and 5-5 and prime values as opposed to bidding 2H which shows 5-5? Consider my mind blown.I think the real question is what one plans to do after the Michael's Cue bid. I assume that if we choose 2♥, which gets my vote (narrowly), we are planning on raising 2♠ to 3♠. What are we planning to do over 2N? Again, I assume we intend to do something to show strength. What I am not clear on is what that would be. We seem to have several possibilities, and I suspect that you have more nuanced agreements than I do :D Would we be thinking of a strength-showing but otherwise ambiguous 3♥? Would we be bidding 4♦, and giving up on 3N? It is the ambiguity of later action that most suggests not using the cuebid. I wouldn't, however, bid 1♠ as my second choice....this is too strong a playing hand to do that, even tho I am a kokish-style overcaller, unafraid of a heavy point count. To me, the cuebid shows the shape and I can usually show the strength next round, so I get to show my hand reasonably well in two bids. Even if they pre-empt, I can double. If I overcall, I get to show spades, but it may well end the auction and/or lead to an auction in which I can't show both diamonds and strength...imagine 3♥ on my left passed back to me. If I double, again I may be unable to show all 3 of my features...indeed, and may well lose the diamond suit entirely plus suggest more spades than I hold. So I cuebid and hope that things work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 I overcall 1♠, but my overcalls are much sounder than most peoples', we won't miss game if it's on barring partner holding something wholly exceptional like ♣QJxxxxx and a stiff diamond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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