Zelandakh Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Could you perhaps add something for crazy things like "always 4S with 5+, double with 3-4 spades" or "always pass"? Or completely random decisions from the reasonable options? I wonder how much better my competitive decisions are compared to those of trained monkeys.This might be an embarassing comparison for us Csaba! :unsure: One easy comparison would be to program the hand into GIB or jack and collate those results. Nice to see that we are close though. I feel that I generally agree with you so some statistics to back that up feels right. In truth I think that whole central block was quite close and I am only 3-4 decisions away from a lot of posters. As Mike says, that can change just from day to day in a compressed auction of this type. It is quite interesting that no 2 posters appear to have exactly agreed though. As for the results, it seems that we might be a tick too aggressive in this spot. Of course the sample size is small but it is something to take away and think about. PK, how much work was this exercise from your side? Do you think it would be possible to do a quiz of this type once a month? I think that is something a lot of BBFers would be interested in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted March 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 This might be an embarassing comparison for us Csaba! :unsure: One easy comparison would be to program the hand into GIB or jack and collate those results. Nice to see that we are close though. I feel that I generally agree with you so some statistics to back that up feels right. In truth I think that whole central block was quite close and I am only 3-4 decisions away from a lot of posters. As Mike says, that can change just from day to day in a compressed auction of this type. It is quite interesting that no 2 posters appear to have exactly agreed though. As for the results, it seems that we might be a tick too aggressive in this spot. Of course the sample size is small but it is something to take away and think about. PK, how much work was this exercise from your side? Do you think it would be possible to do a quiz of this type once a month? I think that is something a lot of BBFers would be interested in. It took about 10 hours or so, I guess. But I will use the material here and there, so it's not wasted effort. Anyway, I learnt a lot doing it and it was fun as well. I intend to repeat it at some stage, but I haven't found the perfect topic. It will no doubt be a competitive theme on which there are often three plausible actions and no real consensus amongst the expert community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 sorry Mikeh, I have added your answers now and updated the XIMPs and dendrogram. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 It is quite interesting that no 2 posters appear to have exactly agreed though.Good that you mentioned it since y66 and wbartley appeared to agree throughout but that was a copy-paste error. I have updated it now. Thanks to everyone for posting in such easy-to-parse formats, by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Could you perhaps add something for crazy things like "always 4S with 5+, double with 3-4 spades" or "always pass"? Or completely random decisions from the reasonable options? I wonder how much better my competitive decisions are compared to those of trained monkeys.It is a bit difficult because the trained monkey will make lots of bits that aren't scored by PK. But if you pick a random bid among those scored, you get -5080.8 on average, which is just 0.8 point worse than mine lol. Wisdom of the crowd gets -3510. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 ximp poster1229 karlson966 Mbodell903 foobar834 Gordontd707 Rhm582 mikeh567 Poky454 NickRW441 cherdano438 Jinksy406 BenLessard392 Zelandakh338 manudude03331 PhantomSac260 Nige1157 cyberyeti-19 WesleyC-35 gnasher-68 PaulG-81 wanoff-121 y66-144 eagles123-153 eilidh-179 AyunuS-235 JoeFortune-341 gwnn-566 helene_t-649 Remnard-882 KurtGodel-1002 Hanoi5-1390 MrAce-1554 gszes-1586 wbartley I have ignored the 4S bid by Gnasher which PhilKing assumed was a typo. I have ignored those bids that were posted after PK revealed the "solutions". Thanks Helene. Cross imps is a lot better than total points, especially because it feels like I did better in that format :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 No matter how stupid your decisions, you'll always have some company ;) Multiple companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Thanks to PK for a really fun quiz, and helene for a helpful breakdown. I will wear my award with far more pride than it merits. I have very restricted time for the forums atm, but would be really aggreived to miss a similar thread. If PK (or anyone) does another one and anyone thinks of it, please could they PM me to let me know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Justin already noticed that he and Arend would be compatible partner's. Here you can see how we cluster based on number of agreements. Presumably the best people to partner with would be those who made approximately oppositely conservative calls to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gszes Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 That's a LOT of work well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trick13 Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Thanks again for such a great post. After thinking about a few of the hands overnight, I went back and redid the quiz this morning (without reading any of the analysis). The second time through 3 of my choices changed (B2 X -> 4S, B9 X -> 4S, B21 X -> P) so I might've lost the flexible double award :(. I think it would be valuable to put together a double dummy analysis of the hands in order to provide more general insight (rather than just a table result from 1 arbitrary full deal). However, in order to do that I need some help coming up with a range for 1H, P and 4H both in standard and limited openings (and also how much each call would vary based on the vul). The main part I could use some input on is determining what hands partner is going to act with (especially with a 1S overcall) and what hands constitute a 4H bid playing limited openings, because the style of these bids varies a huge amount even between top players. Any thoughts on what criteria might be suitable (or perhaps someone already has Deal 3.19 tcl script for a similar situation)? Here is a dealer script I ran for one of the hands. http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/dealer/dealer.php predeal east SAK953, HK8, D82, CAKT8 limited = 0 south_1H = hcp(south) >= 11 and hcp(south) <= (limited ? 15 : 20) and hearts(south) >= 5 and spades(south) < hearts(south) and diamonds(south) <= hearts(south) and clubs(south) <= hearts(south) and losers(south) >= 5 north_4H = (hcp(north) <= 8 and ((hearts(north) >= 5 and not shape(north, any 5332) and losers(north) >= 7) or (hearts(north) >= 4 and losers(north) <= 7 and losers(north) >= 6))) or (limited and hcp(north) >= 8 and hcp(north) <= 13 and losers(north) <= 7 and losers(north) >= 6 and hearts(north) >= 3) west_overcall = (spades(west) >= 5 and hcp(west) >= 8 and top5(west, spades) >= 2) or (clubs(west) >= 5 and hcp(west) >= 10 and top4(west, clubs) >= 2) or (diamonds(west) >= 5 and hcp(west) >= 8 and top4(west, diamonds) >= 2) or (clubs(west) >= 6 and hcp(west) < 10 and hcp(west) >= 6 and top4(west, clubs) >= 2) or (diamonds(west) >= 6 and hcp(west) < 10 and hcp(west) >= 6 and top4(west, diamonds) >= 2) or (hcp(west) >= 18) or (hcp(west) >= 15 and shape(west, any 4333 + any 4432 -x2xx) and top3(west, hearts) >= 1) or (hcp(west) >= 12 and shape(west, 41xx + 42xx)) or (hcp(west) >= 8 and diamonds(west) >= 5 and clubs(west) >= 5) or (hcp(west) >= 11 and diamonds(west) >= 6 and top4(west, diamonds) >= 2) or (hcp(west) >= 11 and clubs(west) >= 6 and top4(west, clubs) >= 2) produce 10000condition south_1H and north_4H and not west_overcall action frequency "spades/hcp" (spades(west), 2, 6, hcp(west), 5, 10) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 ximp poster1229 karlson966 Mbodell903 foobar834 Gordontd707 Rhm582 mikeh567 Poky454 NickRW441 cherdano438 Jinksy406 BenLessard392 Zelandakh338 manudude03331 PhantomSac260 Nige1157 cyberyeti-19 WesleyC-35 gnasher-68 PaulG-81 wanoff-121 y66-144 eagles123-153 eilidh-179 AyunuS-235 JoeFortune-341 gwnn-566 helene_t-649 Remnard-882 KurtGodel-1002 Hanoi5-1390 MrAce-1554 gszes-1586 wbartley Helene!! Are you sure you did not post this list upside down??http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Usually when i do stuff like this to student i put the hand in groups, all vul, none vul etc..this of course help the students because its easy to compared the hand with each others in the same group. Im also not used to red and amber the way Phil has done. What im use is red= all red,white= all white, fav & unfav but there is no default here. I like green for fav, but we need a color for unfav, however using red for all vul will annoyed those who are used that red is unfav. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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