eagles123 Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 This just came up on a bbo TMpartner is unknown but self rates as expert [hv=pc=n&w=skqj92hq862d2ckt7&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1c1hp]133|200[/hv] What is best here? Many thanks Eagles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 I'd bid 2♠ (fit) and assume it would be read as such Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Fit jump is a great description here, but I would never try it with an unknown partner. I would bid 2♣ and hope the message gets across. Second choice 4♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 I will try 4h as a game try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 I don't really like 4♥ because of the club situation. 2 (or 3) clubs off the top, plus a pointed suit Ace and we're already in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 No way I bid 2♠ with a random anything. Bid 2♣ and then go to game unless partner completely stifles you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 I don't think it matters much but 1♠ followed by a cue at the 3 level or a jump in hearts depending on what happens next should do the job. Mind you my partnership overcalls chunky 4-card suits with shape unsuitable for a double but neither one of us is your unknown partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 I will try 4h as a game try. I always thought this was an invite rather than a try in this circumstance: Try = bid game and try to make itInvite = bid game and invite partner to make it Fit jump is a great description here, but I would never try it with an unknown partner. I've heard of "new partner asking bids", this is more of a "new partner trial bid", if he doesn't read it, I'll find a different partner next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 [hv=pc=n&w=skqj92hq862d2ckt7&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1c1hp]133|200[/hv]This just came up on a bbo TM. partner is unknown but self rates as expertWhat is best here?Many thanks IMO 4♥ = 10, 2♠ = 9, 2♣ = 8, 3♥ = 7, 4♦ = 6, 2N = 5. Shut out ♦ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 I go with 4H. I can see bidding 2C if I envision possibly stopping in 3H (say I bid 2C, opponents stay olut of it, partner bids 2H, I raise to 3H, passable. With some partners a bid of 3C rather than 2C shows a four card limit raise and I could try that. But I am not that pessimistic so I just bid 4H.. Without discussion here is how I interpret various calls after (1C)-1H-(Pass) 1S: Not forcing opposite an overcall. And so could not possibly have four hearts.2S: Natural. Good hand with good spades.,No interest in hearts,2C: Limit raise or better in hearts or else some super hand with no suitable bid.2C followed by a jump to 4H. Better than just bidding 4H directly. I have a good hand but not that good on the likely club lead. Maybe 4H is too high, I am aceless and the club K is of questionable value but I am going for it. I view slam as too unlikely to worry about, so I'll leave that to the experts. Of course partner is an expert, so he will explain to me what I should have done. I have no quarrel with a fit showing jump except that I don't think that it is the default meaning of the call. I think 2S just shows spades. When playing pick up and you have a nine card heart fit, the most important thing is to be sure that you play in hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Keep it simple, just bid 4H, see, if it makes.The king of clubs is certainly of dubious value, i.e. 4Hcould be too high, but so what. Even in a regular partnership, 2S beging fit jump, I am not sure,I would use 2S. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 3nt. Self rated experts can't be trusted to play the hand. We probably get a spade or club lead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trump Echo Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 I'd go with 4♥ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourdad Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 right and wrong here cannot be determined if you had no partnership agreement as to the range of the 1♥ overcall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithhus Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 As a beginner, I would bid 4H, as you might expect. But with reference to a previous topic - I.e. LoTT, would 3H be a sensible invitation? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Yes but 3♥ is not commonly used as invitational. It is preemptive. With a hand this strong you have to bid 2♣ or maybe 3♣ or 1♠ if you want to show inviational strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akwoo Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 I would bid 1♠. Yes, it's non-forcing, but a pass would be on something like ♠xx ♥AKxxx ♦xxx ♣xxx where no game is on. It's true a heart partial is better than a spade partial, but that's not such a big deal at IMPs. I would not bid 2♠. I am as likely to play that as a weak jump shift as a fit jump. Most people play 3♥ in this situation as a WEAK LoTT bid - showing 4 hearts and less than 10 (or even less than 7) hcp. I wouldn't object to 2♣, but partner doesn't really know how to evaluate their hand opposite a generic invitation here. ♠Ax ♥AJxxx ♦xxxx ♣xx is as good as ♠xx ♥AKxxx ♦QJxx ♣Qx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmnka447 Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 4 ♥ for me, also. You can never know exactly what's right on this hand, so I don't think starting with a cue gains much. The down side to a cue is that it might give the opponents a chance to speak at a lower level, find a fit and compete. Give partner as little as xxx AKxxx xxx Qx and 4 ♥ may make. So there's nothing wrong with making an aggressive game bid with some values here. Tactically, it's not a bad idea to do so occasionally anyhow. I remember a KO quite a few years ago where holding a similar hand game was bid and doubled. It made for a swing. Then on the following hand, the bidding was the same except the 4 ♥ bid was a typical preemptive raise. The opposition, having been burned on the previous hand, was unsure of what was held and didn't find a double. However, a double was needed to salvage a near push as their game made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iandayre Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 4H. Just can't see not giving game a shot. And for any considering 2S - if 1S is constructive, not forcing, then 2S is the forcing S call. A fit jump would be right if you were a passed hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithhus Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Yes but 3♥ is not commonly used as invitational. It is preemptive. With a hand this strong you have to bid 2♣ or maybe 3♣ or 1♠ if you want to show inviational strength. Helene, I suppose your "preemptive " comment is the same as Akoo's re LoTT - I.e 3H would indicate less than 10pts. I am getting a little confused, as my teaching re responses to over callswas : 3 card support 8-11 Increase bid by 1 12-15. Increase bid by 2 16. Increase by 3Hence, 3H would not be weak.What am I not understanding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagles123 Posted February 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 I think in hindsight I was way too aggressive on this hand. I bid 4d pard bid 4h and we went 2 off. No catastrophe when other table were in 3 minus 1 but a lesson for me Eagles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gszes Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 3nt. Self rated experts can't be trusted to play the hand. We probably get a spade or club lead. MEOW:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 It's ok I bid 4D too. If I'm bidding 4H I might as well bid 4D along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gszes Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 yes yes I KNOW 4h is too stinking high (I read the above) but I would still bid 4h with this hand for several reasons.1. It is anything but clear which side owns this hand. The club K could be worthless and if that is the case our hand is essentially preemptive.2. Jump fit is a great idea but unless you are playing it non forcing (I don't) you cannot turn the spigot off when game is not on. It might help to right side the contract if game has play.3. P failed to bid 2n to show 55 reds. This usually means the opps have at least an 8+ card dia fit which they will much more easily find if we take the slow road (2c 2s 1s etc). The dia suit will most likely be lost after we bid 4h.4. The 2s jump fit should show some cards not a bunch of quacks that are useless on defense. There is a reasonable chance this auction will be competitive and if we jump fit here with this defensive dreck it may become all too easy for p to misjudge at higher levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Helene, I suppose your "preemptive " comment is the same as Akoo's re LoTT - I.e 3H would indicate less than 10pts. I am getting a little confused, as my teaching re responses to over callswas : 3 card support 8-11 Increase bid by 1 12-15. Increase bid by 2 16. Increase by 3Hence, 3H would not be weak.What am I not understanding?You probably understand it. It is just that what you teacher told is primitive. In general, in contested auctions, jumping in partner's suit is preemptive and we bid the opponent's suit (or maybe 2nt if agreed) with more constructive hands. This also applies in auctions like1♠-(2♥)-3♠ However, it is not a universal principle. For example1♣-(pass)-1♠-(2♦)3♠* Here 3♠ shows a genuine raise to the 3-level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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