kgr Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Traditionally the minimum for responder on 1-level was 6 HCP. What do you consider the expert minimum now for bidding systems like SAYC (EDIT: or 2/1 ...). One Ace or One king?What is your minimum for bidding 1M or 1NT?:1m-(P)-1M1M-(p)-1NT What is the impact on other bidding sequences, if there is an impact? 1x-1y2NT=> Is 2NT still 18-19 and is it still GF? 1D-1H3C=> Is 3C still 18+?(I think everybody still plays this a GF). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Traditionally the minimum for responder on 1-level was 6 HCP. What do you consider the expert minimum now for bidding systems like SAYC. One Ace or One king? I dunno. I don't know any true expert who plays SAYC. Playing a sane system like 2/1 I'd say 5 HCP or any ace is probably ok. Over 1m, especially 1c this may be shaded with club shortness, especially with something like 3-4-5-1 shape or similar where you plan to pass 1M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 What is the impact on other bidding sequences, if there is an impact? 1x-1y2NT=> Is 2NT still 18-19 and is it still GF? "Still" GF? Was it ever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgr Posted February 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I dunno. I don't know any true expert who plays SAYC. Playing a sane system like 2/1with SAYC I meant SAYC, 2/1, .... (not precision), I have edited the OP I'd say 5 HCP or any ace is probably ok. Over 1m, especially 1c this may be shaded with club shortness, especially with something like 3-4-5-1 shape or similar where you plan to pass 1M.1x-1y2NTIs this still 18-19 and still GF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Still 18-19 and it's never been a GF in anything resembling standard methods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 If you don't like the nonforcing 2NT rebid, play Dutch Doubleton or something similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgr Posted February 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 If you don't like the nonforcing 2NT rebid,Yes, I prefer that this is GF play Dutch Doubleton or something similar.I googled this an found your document. You are referring to (?): 1C-1D being weak=> We play T-Walsh, so I don't see a solution for this. And we would have the same issue after?:1D-1M2NT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 If you want the transfer accept to show 3-card support I think it is best to rebid1♣-1♦1♠with 18-19 and 4234. That way the 2NT rebid still exists but it will be much less common, after the 1♦ response it will be specically 3235 and I suppose you could now play 3♣ as to play since there is less need for forcing bids now that opener's hannd is so well-defined. This makes it reasonably safe to respond to the 1♣ opening with 4-5 points. Long time ago I asked at the Stepbridge forum if I should respond to a 1♣ opening with 4441 and four points, and Marion Michielsen (together with some other Dutch experts) adviced strongly against it as partner will probably rebid 2NT. My feeling is that light responses have become more fashionable since then so maybe the same experts would take a different view today. That said, I don't think there are many Dutch experts that don't have a method to stop in 1NT when opener has 18-19 points. This was already the case at that time. So what they said may be more about what they would suggest for beginners than what they play themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 The categorization of a 2NT rebid in a standard system is interesting. If it shows a specific narrow range and shape, we don't need to label it as NF or GF. It is what it is -- unless you have agreed to abuse (extend?) the bid with other hand types and strengths. The fact that WE have rarely ever passed it -- and don't use Wolff --- merely says something about our responses to opening 1-bids. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycroft Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I've described a similar sequence as "Not forcing, but in practise never passed." I've described a different similar sequence as "he/I can pass it, but he/I'd better be right." If you don't trust your partner to make these decisions, ah well. If you do, you're in good hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 It depends on your hand. High cards are not everything. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 If you want the transfer accept to show 3-card support I think it is best to rebid1♣-1♦1♠with 18-19 and 4234. That way the 2NT rebid still exists but it will be much less common, after the 1♦ response it will be specically 3235 and I suppose you could now play 3♣ as to play since there is less need for forcing bids now that opener's hannd is so well-defined. This makes it reasonably safe to respond to the 1♣ opening with 4-5 points.The problem with that is the continuation1♣-1♦1♠-1NT2NTYou can't bid any differently with a 4225 hand and 16 hcp at any point - that's very different from a 4234 19 count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Sure but can't you just bid 3nt with 19? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvage Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I think there may be some small variations between "Norwegian standard 2/1" and what is generally called 2/1, but since I actually discussed this with a couple of the other players during this weekends Premier League, here are my thoughts. The hand we discussed was both vul with xxx, J9x, xx, Axxxx after 1♦ - (P) - ? At the table I passed, which didn't make much difference in practice. I would have played and made 1NT, now opponents had an obvious balance (Geir Helgemo doubled behind me) and we could actually even beat 1♥ (they got to 2♥ but our/my defence was not optimal). Partner later agreed that it was borderline between pass and 1NT, but he would also pass. One reason is that playing Norwegian Standard most partners will simply raise 1NT to 3NT with 18-19. Before anyone tells me how stupid this is it has some advantages in other areas and has been good enough to win some World championships, but I expect most experts who play a structure based on using Gazilli-type rebids with strong openers would respond 1NT with this hand. If I had a 4-card major, even with 3424 I think it is clear to respond 1M with this honour-structure. If partner had opened 1♥/♠ I think this is a clear raise (I play weak and strong raises to the two-level) and it is also clear to respond if the minors are switched and partner opened 1♣ (I can then respond 1♠ playing transfer-Walsh showing 5-9), but I would have passed 1♥♠ if that was my low doubleton based on not wanting to play 3NT across a 17+-19NT. This is also because the limit for 1♥/♠ is around 21 bad HP, while 1♣♦ could be a bit stronger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvage Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Norwegian Transfer-Walsh, where accepting the transfer generally show 3-card-support (as I think also in Italian, while I think Dutch and Swedish TW differentiates between 11-14 and 18-19), is divided when it comes to rebid with 18-19 and 3-card-support. Having played both ways I now prefer to accept the transfer with 3-card-support and 18-19. This makes the rebids after 2NT (showing 18-19 in this style of TW) easier (can either use that accepting a retransfer shows 1-2 or even differentiate between 1 and 2 card-support) and also makes it a little less risky to respond to 1♣ with shaded values (you sometimes get to pass 1M) which IMO is generally a winning tactic. Unlike Helenes suggestion I think noone here rebids 1♠ with 4 spades and 18-19NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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