manudude03 Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 [hv=pc=n&s=sat753ht74djct983&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=p1d1sd]133|200[/hv] Teams, w/w how many spades do you bid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 4♠ I bid 3♠ when it is 5332 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuhchung Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 4♠ I bid 3♠ when it is 5332 try it in bigger font. it's really quite satisfying 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 At this vulnerability I don't see any reason not to bid 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 If I could write down a textbook 4S call it would look like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manudude03 Posted February 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 I felt this was a pretty obvious 4S bid myself. Partner however was not amused to say the least after it went for 800. And no, slam wasn't bid at the other table. [hv=pc=n&s=sat753ht74djct983&w=s9hq62dkq972cakq6&n=skq842hk83dt4c752&e=sj6haj95da8653cj4&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=p1d1sd4sdppp]399|300[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gszes Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 I felt this was a pretty obvious 4S bid myself. Partner however was not amused to say the least after it went for 800. And no, slam wasn't bid at the other table. [hv=pc=n&s=sat753ht74djct983&w=s9hq62dkq972cakq6&n=skq842hk83dt4c752&e=sj6haj95da8653cj4&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=p1d1sd4sdppp]399|300[/hv]remind p what a 4s jump looks like and maybe they will overcall better:)))))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Advertisment for short suit totals instead of total trumps :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 It takes extremely good defense to get 4♠ for 800. Unless the defense plays exactly 1 round of hearts before the minor suits are eliminated, declarer can duck a heart to East and avoid the loss of 3 heart tricks. And if the defense plays 2 rounds of hearts, declarer only loses 2 heart tricks. -500 won't be a triumph, but it is not a disaster, and it is likely to be duplcated at the other table. In any event, a clear 4♠ bid by South. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Unless I am missing something 4♠ should not go for 800. In any event, a clear 4♠ bid by South. Defence can play one round of hearts early to break up the ending, but in practice a decent declarer will get out for down three most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manudude03 Posted February 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Partner didn't play optimally, but it was heading for 800 regardless of what he did. East led the ♦A and then switched to ♣J4 after which West won a third round of clubs before switching to hearts. Partner decided to put up the king at this point, but even if he doesn't, East can just exit a diamond or a trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 My thoughts for only 3 spades: Our ODR is low, ♠A is neutral and the rest is nothing. If the strength is something like 17-23 +140 can be the par score (or +100). if it is right to bid 4♠ partner can bid them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 if it is right to bid 4♠ partner can bid them.No he can't A 3♠ bid non-vul doesn't look like this hand. And partner should NEVER play us for Axxxx in trump and a stiff when we bid 3♠. Not only is the 5th trump often an offensive asset, in that it means one fewer side card while affording, usually, more flexibility in the play, but and critically it is a defensive negative, weakening the defensive potential of the combined hands, something that is as big a part of making save decisions as is estimating our tricks on offence. We don't want to save with defence. Axxx opposite KQxxx is far different defensively than Axxxx opposite KQxxx. I usually respect your views, even when I disagree (and often I agree), but this one is way off base imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 remind p what a 4s jump looks like and maybe they will overcall better:)))))) This would be my way of thinking, a balanced 8 count is not what I consider a 1♠ overcall to look like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 No he can't A 3♠ bid non-vul doesn't look like this hand. And partner should NEVER play us for Axxxx in trump and a stiff when we bid 3♠. Not only is the 5th trump often an offensive asset, in that it means one fewer side card while affording, usually, more flexibility in the play, but and critically it is a defensive negative, weakening the defensive potential of the combined hands, something that is as big a part of making save decisions as is estimating our tricks on offence. We don't want to save with defence. Axxx opposite KQxxx is far different defensively than Axxxx opposite KQxxx. I usually respect your views, even when I disagree (and often I agree), but this one is way off base imo.So partner is foced to pass after we bid 3♠? Partner is never playing for this crap if we bid 4♠, so arguing that this is not a perfect 3♠ is not really valid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Partner is never playing for this crap if we bid 4♠, Why not? Everyone except you thinks this is a textbook 4♠. Thus it must be expected hand for a lot of people. Never is an overstatement, don't you think? Tbh when my pd bids 4M over my 1M, I almost always imagine a hand similar to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Why not? Everyone except you thinks this is a textbook 4♠. Thus it must be expected hand for a lot of people. Never is an overstatement, don't you think? Tbh when my pd bids 4M over my 1M, I almost always imagine a hand similar to this.At least I said never, not NEVER for my overstatement :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 I think these are a normal 1♠ overcall and a normal raise to 4♠. On this occasion the cards were lying badly, and the opponents judged and defended well. Should we start underbidding because of that? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Our ODR is low ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 As opposed to a prototypical 4♠ which could be: ♠KQ10xx♥xxx♦x♣QJxx our ODR is low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 I think that I have wasted several minutes of my life reading this thread that I will not get back. Really, several posters (including me) have said in several ways that this was a perfectly normal auction. It could not be said better than this: I think these are a normal 1♠ overcall and a normal raise to 4♠. On this occasion the cards were lying badly, and the opponents judged and defended well. Should we start underbidding because of that? Why is this not the end of the discussion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuhchung Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Why is this not the end of the discussion? Because it led to a bad result sorry was that meant to be rhetorical oh god now i've ruined everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Because it led to a bad result sorry was that meant to be rhetorical oh god now i've ruined everythingLife is tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akwoo Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 As opposed to a prototypical 4♠ which could be: ♠KQ10xx♥xxx♦x♣QJxx our ODR is low. This is not a 4S. This is a 2D, cue bid showing limit raise or better. (Actually, maybe not. It might depend on whether I think my partner can use the room better than the opponents.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 I get it, if you don't go at least 500 opposite a minimum its not a 4♠ bid :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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