2/1 bidding question

[jerdonald]

BBO forum,

I need some opinions here:

 

We play 2/1 with 1NT by an unpassed responder as semi-forcing.

 

When partner opens 1 of a minor and I hold an hand like:

 

S. 94

H. Q87642

D. 6

C. AT83

 

She says I should bid the hearts but I prefer to bid 1NT to show

point count and bid the hearts next to play.

 

She also thinks I should bid the hearts even if she opens 1 spade.

That means I have to bid 2 hearts which seems like too much of a

lie playing 2/1.

 

Any comments?

 

Jerryd

[PrecisionL]

If you are playing 2/1 Game Forcing, then you MUST respond 1NT and then show the hearts = weak hand with 6 hearts. Very few pairs play that responder is allowed to bid 2♥ and then 3♥ to show a weak hand (usually requires a better suit).

[awm]

Bidding at the one and two level is different. With this hand, you must bid one heart if available. You prefer to play in hearts opposite most partner hands and responding 1nt will often end the auction.

 

If partner opened one spade, you obviously cannot bid one heart. Two hearts is likely the best contract, but a bid of two hearts will not end the auction and shows a much better hand than this. You must respond 1nt and hope partner rebids in a minor, after which you can try two hearts.

[Vampyr]

If you are playing 2/1 Game Forcing, then you MUST respond 1NT and then show the hearts = weak hand with 6 hearts. Very few pairs play that responder is allowed to bid 2♥ and then 3♥ to show a weak hand (usually requires a better suit).

 

The OP also asked about when partner opens 1 of a minor. An incomplete answer like this hurts more than it helps.

[Jinksy]

It's also worth clarifying with each other what you think 1m P 2♥ would mean. For many people, it's weak, with a range including some or all of the weaker responding hands with 6+ hearts. If so, then partner can infer when you bid and rebid the suit that you have a hand too good to respond that way immediately.

[gszes]

2/1 is named that way since the idea behind it is for responder to have a game forcing

hand when they bid 2/1. This allows the partnership the luxury of exploring at a much

lower level since they do not have to worry about jumping about to show power.

 

A quick glance at this responder's hand shows it is well short of a game forcing bid and the

partnership must decide how to handle hands like this. Using a semi forcing 1n has the grave

disadvantage of never being able to show this hand at all and the other general option of 3h

(weak jump shift) is normally reserved for a much better heart suit (AQTxxx or more length).

 

Playing a forcing 1n has the disadvantage of not being able to play in 1n but has a vastly

greater chance of allowing responder to show their hearts at the 2 level. Something to think about

when deciding btn semi-forcing and forcing 1n (over 1M).

 

Many would say the entire purpose of bidding is something like "the safe search for a 8 card

or greater major suit - followed by nt then the minors"....using that definition alone would seem

to show the importance of beginning to show your heart length (over 1m) before worrying about

overall hand power. The main problem with bypassing majors (especially long ones like this) and

bidding 1n to show power is that it can become quite possible to be playing in a totally hopeless

1n (even making 1 or 2) while completely missing out on the 9 or even 10 trick major suit contract

that might otherwise have been bid. A good example hand might be the following:

 

opener has

A32 K953 432 KQJ2 opposite

94 Q87642 6 AT83 (look familiar?)

 

If the bidding goes 1c p 1n p opener with their minimum balanced hand has nowhere to go

and passes and the partnership settles for 5 or maybe even 6 tricks in 1n

 

If the bidding goes 1c p 1h p 2h p responder can reevaluate their hand based on the

known trump fit (and at least 9 and probably 10 card trump suit). They can count short

suit points for diamonds and spades and their mere 6 hcp suddenly looks worth more like

11 so they deem the hand to be invitational rather than weak. Responder then continues

with 3c (HSGT -- invitational or greater) and opener with solid clubs (virtually assuring

no club losers along with a side ace and good trump honor decide to bid game despite 3433

distribution.

 

This pair arrives in a perfectly fitting 4h contract that will score 1s 5h 4c far more

often than it will go set and a large game bonus is achieved for either a vastly superior

MP score or a possible game swing at IMPS. The scary part is that even if 4h goes down

1 it is probably going to score just as well or better than the 1n contract from the previous

auction even though they are playing at the 4 level vs the 1 level.

 

Now let's add to the thinking playing a 15-17 1NT when opener opens 1m their "normal" hand

is 12 14 balanced or semi balanced (the kind of hand that will almost always pass a 1n bid

by responder). IF your partnership happened to be playing a 12-14 1n opener would you actually

consider passing that bid or would you go to great pains to make certain the contract was

in hearts and not nt??? Even if your side did not arrive in game 2h making 4 (or 3) will always

score better than playing in 1N and while the gain is probably small at IMPS it will almost

always be solidly better at MP.

[masonbarge]

Yes, bid your six-card suit at the one level.

 

No, do not bid 2♥ over 1♠, which is a game force! Even if you don't play 2/1, this is at best a marginal 2♥ response.

 

I do not see a real issue in either case, personally.

[ArtK78]

This is the Intermediate and Advanced bridge forum. So I will not be as delicate as I might be if this were the Novice and Beginner forum.

 

Any bid other than 1♥ in response to a one of a minor opening in a standard system (and you said it was 2/1, which is a standard system) IS A LUNACY.

 

You have a six card suit to the Q and a side Ace. Even if you play weak jump shifts, this hand is too good for one. That is not to say that this hand is a powerhouse. Just that I would not be ashamed of it.

 

Respond 1♥. Over any simple rebid by partner other than a rebid of two of a minor, you clearly have a 2♥ rebid. If partner opened 1♦ and rebids 2♦, you may decide to pass to avoid getting into trouble. If partner opened 1♣ and rebids 2♣, your hand is good enough to bid 3♣.

 

The one problem sequence is if partner opened 1♦ and rebid 2♣ over your 1♥ response. It may be right to pass, as 2♣ rates to be as good a contract as any.

 

The idea of responding 1NT to a one of a minor opening bid is insane. Don't by-pass major suits. If you had a balanced hand with a weak 4 card major, it might be reasonable to bid 1NT. But a SIX CARD MAJOR? NEVER!!

 

*******************************************

 

If partner opened the bidding 1♠, you are far too weak to respond 2♥. So you have to bid 1NT. If partner bids 2♦ over 1NT, you have a bit of a problem. A 2♥ bid shows a weak hand with long hearts, but it may not be the right contract opposite heart shortness since your suit is so weak. You have 2 spades opposite partner's 5 card spade suit, so bidding 2♠ may be best.

 

If partner rebids 2♣ over 1NT, it may be right to pass, even if partner has only 3 clubs.

[fromageGB]

1♠ (pass) ?

I am not sure what "semi-forcing" means.

 

If it means forcing then not forcing on alternate hands, then if this is the time it is forcing, by all means bid 1NT and rebid hearts. If this is the time it is not forcing, then I would hate to play in 1NT when spades is much better, so I would pass.

 

If it means partner passes 1NT when she is a minimum-ish opener, then again I think pass might be better.

[ArtK78]

1♠ (pass) ?

I am not sure what "semi-forcing" means.

 

If it means forcing then not forcing on alternate hands, then if this is the time it is forcing, by all means bid 1NT and rebid hearts. If this is the time it is not forcing, then I would hate to play in 1NT when spades is much better, so I would pass.

 

If it means partner passes 1NT when she is a minimum-ish opener, then again I think pass might be better.

Semi-forcing means that with a balanced minimum, opener can pass.