2C opener follwed by 3m rebid

[shevek]

Assume SAYC or similar, where 2♣ is a virtual GF, 2♦ negative 0-7.

 

2♣ - 2♦ - 3♣/♦

 

These are forcing. With no special agreements they are game-forcing.

Seems a bit rich to require opener to battle to 5m opposite a Yarborough.

 

After 3♣, seems okay to play 3♦ as a kind of 2nd negative.

Should it deny a 5-card major? If so,

 

3♦ = waiting, typically 0-4, no 5cM but could be better with a 4cM.

3♥/♠ = 5-card suits, could be weak?

3NT = offer to play, probably no 4cM (in case opener is 4-5 or 4-6)

4♣ = decent raise

 

After 3♦ waiting, responder can pass if opener rebids 4♣. Straight away?

Is that what people do?

 

Awkward after opener rebids 3♦ over 2♦.

Don't much like 3♥ or 3NT as a 2nd negative.

(If 3♥ is a negative, maybe 3NT should show 5 ♥s?)

How about 4♣ as a 2nd negative? At least it allows you to stop in 4♦

[Vampyr]

A 2♣ opener with with a minor suit is stronger than it needs to be with a major, and is game forcing. I suppose you could define game forcing as forcing to 4m, but this would be (I think) an unusual agreement.

 

If you like to show 2nd negatives, why not play Roth and get if off your chest immediately?

[whereagles]

I've once cooked up this method:

 

2♣ ..??

 

2♦ = waiting but GF.

2♥ = 2nd negative (~0-4 H). See below.

2♠/NT = GF with 5 ♠/♥

3m = GF with 6m

Rest = GF with good suit and not much outside it

 

Main idea after 2♣ 2♥ is to use transfers:

 

2♣ 2♥

2♠ = bal unlimited, F1. Responder bids 2NT as "I would pass a 23-24 2NT" else system on.

2NT...3♥ = clubs...spades, F1. Responder completes transfer as "very bad hand.. proceed at your own risk (no fit implied)".

3♠ = 5♠+4♥, F1. You need a specific bid for this hand.

 

Under this scheme you'd have

 

2♣ 2♥

2NT/3♣ 3♣/♦

 

and it would be up to opener to decide whether to carry on or pass.

[Stephen Tu]

I haven't really seen boards won by playing 4m making exactly 4 starting with 2c opener. Few enough that I've given up on showing 2nd negatives on these sequences, it's much more important to keep bids catering to finding major fit. If you keep your 2c ... 3m up to strength, opener will usually have play in 3nt opposite a yarb, more often than 5m, and any scheme that bypasses 3nt to show a double neg is IMO deeply flawed. Over 3d, with no 5cM and a yarb, no fit, I'd rather just bid 3nt and take my chances. Opener will often have 9 tricks, and even if there is a suit the opps can run, they might not find the lead.

[Vampyr]

I've once cooked up this method:

 

2♣ ..??

 

2♦ = waiting but GF.

2♥ = 2nd negative (~0-4 H). See below.

2♠/NT = GF with 5 ♠/♥

3m = GF with 6m

 

This part is Roth, except that the 2♥ bid is 0-3 without a king.

[rmnka447]

I'm not a big fan of 2 ♥ immediate 2nd negative. Opener may not be in position to set the final contract after this bid especially with 2 suited hands.

 

What's a 2nd negative is subject to partnership agreement.

 

I think one of the most workable solutions is making the cheapest suit a 2nd negative. We use that with playing 2 ♦ as waiting (i.e. anything not a disciplined positive). The only drawback is that it occasionally precludes responder from showing a positive holding in the cheapest suit. OTOH, it takes up the least bidding space, so gives opener the most bidding room to tell his story.

 

Using this scheme,

 

Over a 3 ♣ rebid by opener, 3 ♦ is the 2nd negative. Opener still has room to show a major holding at the 3 level, and,

 

Over a 3 ♦ rebid by opener, 3 ♥ is the 2nd negative. Opener still has room to show ♠.

[blackshoe]

You could play Mexican 2♦ in conjunction with strong 2♣. Then 2♣-2♦-3♣ shows clubs and a (shorter) higher ranking suit), and 2♣-2♦-3♦ shows a club single suiter. 2♦-2♥ (negative)-3♣ shows diamonds and another suit. 2♦-2♥-3♦ shows a diamond single suiter. As above, keep your GF minor suit openings up to snuff. Oh, and "Mexican" in this case would be a diamonds oriented GF, quite possibly with some other possibilities. In the current Romex, it's either diamonds or 21-22 or 27-28 balanced, and the response structure is based around the weaker balanced hand. See Godfrey's Angels, by Rosenkranz and Alder.

[Zelandakh]

After 2♣ - 2♦; 3♣, play 3♦ Staymanic, checking initially for a 4-4 major fit with 3M showing a better suit. For Opener holding diamonds, make it so 2♣ - 2♦; 3♦ denies a 4 card major and use 3M rebids to show 4 cards in that major plus longer diamonds. Keep your 2♣ openings strong enough to be GF in these sequences even if your structure allows Acol 2M hands.

[gnasher]

After 2♣-2♦;3♣, another possibility is:

3♦/♥ = transfer, 4+ cards

3♠ = negative, no biddable major

3NT = some values, no biddable major.

After the transfers, opener's completion shows three or more.

 

I've never played this, so don't know how well it works.