Bizarre Gib' bid with lack of bidding rules

[lycier]

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1- The double at the 4th seat shows 9hcp+,this is a normal bidding rule,but Gib don't comply with this standard rule in this hand.

2- I think 4♣ only shows 9hcp+ since it is forced instead of 14+TPS.

[georgi]

North's hand seems too loaded with 16HCP to pass or double 2♠.

 

GIB doesn't have at the moment other options to express these TOX values at this level of 2♠. Double would show length in spades and suggesting to penalize.

 

3♠ forces doubler, so 4♣ explanation's promises will be reduced.

 

But even if South shows the minimum of this double 9,10+HCP, is it clear pass by North with 4th fit?

 

What should North do with such hand or South with little more points over such forcing call?

 

Next time would be even easier.

 

1♠ - P - P - X

P - 2♠ - P - 3♥

 

Is responder allowed to bid game now with similar hand or not?

[lycier]

No ! never !

I remembered that Kit Woolsey had ever said " This hand shows why when you have nothing, bidding nothing is a good idea. There is that third opponent (the one across from you) you have to worry about."

[Stephen Tu]

A few things:

- in addition to the point requirements for 4♣ being reduced, the suit lengths should also be reduced. It is now showing 4+H, 4+D, twice rebiddable clubs. But since it was forced, it should still show little more than the double promised; 3+H, 3+D, 4+ clubs. There is no reason bidding by doubler should ever show increased length in all 3 suits, especially when forced, and promise a spade void!

 

North is allowed to take a shot at 5♣ after simulation, but should do so possibly facing some 2434 11 count or something rather than 0445.

 

- North can maybe consider doubling on the first round

 

- I think the main objection is to South taking action in the first place, 7 hcp takeout double is too pushy even in balancing.

[georgi]

In next version the hands of 4th seat Doubler will promise basic things and won't add extras when they are forced.

 

I.e.

 

1♥ - Pass - Pass - X

2♥ - 3♥ - Pass - 3♠ -> -- 3+ ♣; 3+ ♦; 2- ♥; 4+ ♠; 9+ total points

 

Similar for this case where 4♣ would promise -> 4+ ♣; 3+ ♦; 3+ ♥; 2- ♠; 9+ total points

 

So partner here will pass over 4♣ and after simulation it might reach 5♣ but at least 80% less cases than before where it almost imminent. Now would be something like 8-12% of the cases.

 

 

However note taken to be addressed about similar hands first call.

[Bbradley62]

Similar for this case where 4♣ would promise -> 4+ ♣; 3+ ♦; 3+ ♥; 2- ♠; 9+ total points

I presume the heart and spade lengths are reversed here.

[georgi]

Yes, thank you, i combined both cases.

 

Explanation for the displayed diagram would show -> -- 4+ ♣; 3+ ♦; 3+ ♥; 2- ♠; 9+ total points

 

 

For the hearts opening would be -> -- 4+ ♣; 3+ ♦; 2- ♥; 3+ ♠; 9+ total points