mr1303 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 [hv=pc=n&s=sak4hkj2dakq73c72&n=sqj863hat63d8cqj4&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=2np3cp3dp3h(Smolen)p3s(Accepting%20spades)p4h(Cue%20-%201st%20round)p5d(First%20round)p6sppp]266|200[/hv] This was a bad slam that got worse when the defense cashed the first two clubs. Who is to blame here? North was a JPB robot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 50% to both. Either player could have shut it down after failure to bid 5♣ or 4♣ respectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgoetze Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 100% system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahydra Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 North has no business going to 6S when he knows you're off two cashing clubs. ahydra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgoetze Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 North has no business going to 6S when he knows you're off two cashing clubs.And how on earth does he (it) know that? Anyway, the fact that responders to this thread aren't even bothering to read the alerts because mixed cuebids are so standard nowadays should tell the OP everything he needs to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordontd Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 And how on earth does he (it) know that? Anyway, the fact that responders to this thread aren't even bothering to read the alerts because mixed cuebids are so standard nowadays should tell the OP everything he needs to know.In that style, North should bid 5♠ to deny a club control and then South can't go on without one either. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 In that style, North should bid 5♠ to deny a club control and then South can't go on without one either.Agree. North cannot bid the slam without a club control. This is why the 2NT opening bid is sometimes referred to as a "slam-killer." It takes up so much space that there is no room for intelligent slam exploration once a fit is found. Still, if the partnership were using control cue bids rather than ace first cue bids, it would be easy to avoid slam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted January 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Yeah. Sadly GIB doesn't give me a choice there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 It's been a while since I played 1st round controls, but I seem to remember that playing that scheme South should bid 4NT showing the trump ace. It might have gone 2NT 3♣3♦ 3♥3♠ 4♥4NT 5♦ (no 2nd round club control)5♠ (ze end) There's a reason why 1/2nd round controls + RKCB got more popular. Under this, North would bid 4♦ and South knows immediately of the club "hole". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 In that style, North should bid 5♠ to deny a club control and then South can't go on without one either.Yes, this. It is not right to blame the system, when North didn't use the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Yes, this. It is not right to blame the system, when North didn't use the system.I blame the programmer of this Idiot Bot for not teaching it how to better cue bid to slam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 It's been a while since I played 1st round controls, but I seem to remember that playing that scheme South should bid 4NT showing the trump ace. It might have gone 2NT 3♣3♦ 3♥3♠ 4♥4NT 5♦ (no 2nd round club control)5♠ (ze end) There's a reason why 1/2nd round controls + RKCB got more popular. Under this, North would bid 4♦ and South knows immediately of the club "hole".The trump cue bid is definitely an optional component. Very few players use trump cue bids to the best of my knowledge. I did with one partner many years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I blame the programmer of this Idiot Bot for not teaching it how to better cue bid to slam.If North was the Bot, fine. But, ATB is about which player is responsible for the result. We can lament having inferior methods at our leisure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiddity Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 South is probably to blame for going past 4♠. He knows North doesn't have the ♣A and the lead is coming through dummy so unless it has ♣KQ you're in trouble straight away. North probably has a stiff diamond on this auction, in which case it might well be light on points. You don't necessarily have 5-level safety either (change ♠Q to ♥Q for example). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 North cannot cue 4♥ missing a club control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Didn't GIB use to play natural slam tries in such auctions after 3♠, and then later one of the "improvements" changed it to cuebids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve2005 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 100% system.Gib cuebids Aces first. In a situation like this where one hand is so much weaker than the other having the ability to cue A/K's really shows it's superiority. Plus it is well known Gib doesn't take the right inferences from cuebidding so it's close to being pointless to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourdad Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Why play w/ Bots EVER!! This is a prime example proving that you cannot program advanced actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamJson Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 S should sign off in 4S. N will go on if slam is good (e.g. Qxxxx AQxx x KQx which still needs spades to break). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 In that style, North should bid 5♠ to deny a club control and then South can't go on without one either. Then the Robot is to blame :) It's been a while since I played 1st round controls, but I seem to remember that playing that scheme South should bid 4NT showing the trump ace. It might have gone2NT 3♣3♦ 3♥3♠ 4♥4NT 5♦ (no 2nd round club control)5♠ (ze end)There's a reason why 1/2nd round controls + RKCB got more popular. Under this, North would bid 4♦ and South knows immediately of the club "hole". Then mr1303 is to blame :) If you are playing 1st round control cue-bids, then whereagles' rolling 4N approach seems preferable to gordontd's. I doubt the Robot knows either method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masonbarge Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 [hv=pc=n&s=sak4hkj2dakq73c72&n=sqj863hat63d8cqj4&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=2np3cp3dp3h(Smolen)p3s(Accepting%20spades)p4h(Cue%20-%201st%20round)p5d(First%20round)p6sppp]266|200[/hv] This was a bad slam that got worse when the defense cashed the first two clubs. Who is to blame here? North was a JPB robot.GIB has done a lot worse to me! :P I played seven spades yesterday on a 5-1 spade suit. I think the best action for South would be 4NT, which GIB will hopefully interpret as Blackwood. The interface will tell you (with about 80% accuracy) how GIB will read a bid. And actually, I would myself treat it as Blackwood, since spades has been settled, but opinions on that might vary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgoetze Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Didn't GIB use to play natural slam tries in such auctions after 3♠, and then later one of the "improvements" changed it to cuebids?Yes, then they added GIB subs to their new instant tournaments or whatever, and at first people couldn't see what their bids meant (and later when they did they never bothered looking), so instead of fixing that they just jerry-rigged GIB's system to be something they thought people would understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iandayre Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Why play w/ Bots EVER!! This is a prime example proving that you cannot program advanced actions. This is a great question which deserves its own topic. I am a Gold LM and played my last hand of live bridge in February of 2008. I didn't touch a card until Dec. 2013 when I tried playing the ACBL robot tournaments on BBO. Now I am playing the game regularly again, reading old Bridge World copies and have renewed my ACBL membership. I could go on for quite some time. Rest assured though, despite the robots' flaws, it is an enjoyable form of the game to play. But only play with the Advanced bots, the basic ones ARE truly hopeless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mm84963 Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 I would think that North is to blame. Once South denies the club Ace with the 5D bid, North cannot insist on slam. South, knowing that partner had slam interest, can bid 6S if he/she has the club K. David 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trump Echo Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Assign the blame? That's easy. It's my partner's fault! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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