Try For Game?

[eagles123]

[hv=pc=n&s=skqj6hkj732dkj6c8&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=ppp1hp2hp]133|200[/hv]

 

system is (not my choice) weak and four

 

scoring is MP

 

worth a game try?

 

thanks

 

Eagles

[blackshoe]

I don't think so.

[neilkaz]

I have no aces and it's MP so I am not going to push towards a close game.

 

I presume playing 4CM that PD with 3♥ and 4♠ would've bid 1♠?

 

EDIT: I asked this since to me this makes it a tad more unlikely that we have a game since there's no 4-4 S fit.

[eagles123]

I have no aces and it's MP so I am not going to push towards a close game.

 

I presume playing 4CM that PD with 3♥ abd 4♠ would've bid 1♠?

 

correct

[MrAce]

Only thing encouraging is that I assume 2♥ showed 4 card support, correct?

[mgoetze]

Hm, well, if partner has any two aces we have a decent game (and because we already have a lot of quacks, partner won't have as many... then again he'll likely have them in clubs...)

 

If I have some way of showing a short suit try in clubs, I would do that, but I assume you only had natural game tries available. I guess I'd pass, somewhat reluctantly.

[NickRW]

Well, p could have something like

 

xx

xxxx

xxx

KQJx

 

where even 3♥ looks dodgy. Alternatively he/she could have

 

Ax

Qxxx

Qxx

xxxx

 

where 4♥ looks very good. You pays your money and takes your choice as they say. Personally, given that it is MP, I would prefer not to invite. Now if it is IMPs and especially if I have a short suit game try available maybe I will be brave.

[whereagles]

MP scoring? hmmm.. that makes it harder. At imps it's a clear 3♦ to me.

 

I think I'd bid 3♦ or pass depending on field and tactical considerations.

[NickRW]

Only thing encouraging is that I assume 2♥ showed 4 card support, correct?

 

Depends on style. Some people prefer it to show 4, but many will prefer the single raise to 1NT with 3 and a shortage, for example with:

 

x

Qxx

Qxxx

QTxxx

[mgoetze]

MP scoring? hmmm.. that makes it harder. At imps it's a clear 3♦ to me.

 

I think I'd bid 3♦ or pass depending on field and tactical considerations.

Eh... if I don't have a short suit try available I'd prefer a simple 3♥ to any help suit / long suit try.

[Fluffy]

Eh... if I don't have a short suit try available I'd prefer a simple 3♥ to any help suit / long suit try.

 

You mean it is better for partner to think ♦Q and ♣Q are equal than to think ♦Q is better? If we are inviting it is obvious to use diamond invite.

 

Also hands with just ♠A + ♣A offer no play in game. I think we need 2 red honnors to have a good game, 1 to have a chance. EDIT: With 4 trumps in fornt 2 aces will offer a chance nearly always sorry.

[PhilKing]

I think it is a pretty neutral decision whether to try for game or not, but my guess is that pass is a tiny winner in the long run.

 

Just to clarify what I believe to be the standard acol style of raises, if partner has only 3 trumps they should have a ruffing value and should have a maximum of 8 points, and if they have 4 trumps they can't have more than a decent 8 count. The point is that a minimum strong no trump is expected to pass the raise, so raising to 2 is not particularly strong.

[whereagles]

Well if pard can't have more than 8, pass becomes much more appealing.

[fromageGB]

Well, not my system either, but I would assume 2♥ is 6-10 and 4 hearts (or equivalent with shortage) therefore on the principle that a 23 point 9 card fit is worth bidding game, with my excellent 14 it is certainly worth a try.

 

The actual form of a try depends on trial agreements, but I like a "nothing" try, either no values or a short suit, with 2♠ (2M+1) if I have scattered values, so 3♣ from me. Partner should be able to judge.

[GrahamJson]

It's close, but I think pass is the percentage bid. If I did make a try, lacking any agreement 2S looks best. Partner can then show values in clubs (bad) or diamonds (good) .

[nekthen]

As this is my style of bidding, I am in the 3♦ camp. P should now know what to do. I do not think the fact that I opened in 4th seat makes any difference to the bidding

[fourdad]

Would partner, a passed hand, bid 2H with 10 points? Is that not what he needs for there to be a game try?

 

Seems to me the aggressive action is an invite of 3H....and even that may be too much if pd has overly aggressive tendencies.

[fourdad]

Would partner, a passed hand, bid 2H with 10 points? Is that not what he needs for there to be a game try?

 

Seems to me the aggressive action is an invite of 3H....and even that may be too much if pd has overly aggressive tendencies.

[NickRW]

Would partner, a passed hand, bid 2H with 10 points? Is that not what he needs for there to be a game try?

 

Well, simplistically 10-12 is in the range of a game try and therefore not a 2H response. However, there are times when you pick up a 4333 shaped 10 count with no aces and 9 losers that you have to decide if it is really worth a game try, and especially so if partner has opened in 3rd or 4th seat (and therefore may be a tad light).

[MrAce]

Would partner, a passed hand, bid 2H with 10 points? Is that not what he needs for there to be a game try?

 

Seems to me the aggressive action is an invite of 3H....and even that may be too much if pd has overly aggressive tendencies.

 

Especially if the pair is using drury.

[jdgalt]

Not I. I've only got 2 pts above my opening bid. If we're playing Reverse Drury, partner has denied 10 pts, and if we're not then he's pretty much on his own.

 

Let the experts bid it. They can make games that aren't there. I have trouble doing that.

[akwoo]

If I specifically have a short suit try, I use it. Otherwise I pass.

[Trump Echo]

3♦

[masonbarge]

At matchpoints, no way. You're going to get a decent score for 2♥ making 4, and a terrible score if you go set. You also have to factor in the possibility of being in 3 going down one, if partner declines. Very very bad at MP.

 

At IMPs there is an adage, "slow to invite, quick to accept." The problem is that your partner will push an invitation. That said, vulnerable, I would hazard a 3♦ bid. You're looking at +620 vs. +170. And opponents make mistakes - a lead up to your KJx of diamonds is possible, for instance.

[Zelandakh]

Would partner, a passed hand, bid 2H with 10 points? Is that not what he needs for there to be a game try?

On the grounds that we need 24+ hcp to make game, right?

 

Not I. I've only got 2 pts above my opening bid.

♠QJ6 ♥KJ732 ♦KJ6 ♣K8 would perhaps be 2 points above minimum but the hand with shortage + fit is surely considerably better.

 

Both of these posts seem to be prefaced on the notion that hcp is the be-all and end-all of hand evaluation. There are 7 counts that would be too strong for 2♥ and 10 counts that are perfectly fine for the call.

 

I do not agree with PK's assessment of the "standard Acol style" - raising with 2=3=4=4 is quite possible, for example, as this rates to be better than 1NT a lot of the time. Most would also raise quite happily with 9 and 4 card support, including the odd downgraded 10.

 

MrAce's point about Drury is also well taken. I would assume Drury is not being used given that it was not mentioned. That has a direct effect on the top end.

 

If we go back to the point count argument from earlier, I would rate this hand about a 15-16 at this stage. That is clearly considerably better than 2 above minimum (especially in Acol) but also not enough to make game odds on. Here I agree with Phil about inviting being neutral. At IMPs it would be a no-brainer; MPs I am going to size up the opps. If we are inviting, two-way game tries would be a big help.