Spades... SPADES!!!

[Hanoi5]

[hv=pc=n&w=s73hkqj52d87ckt96&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1s?2s3d3s?]133|200[/hv]

 

Do you enter the first or the second time? Do you remain quiet? ANy difference between MP's and Imp's?

[Fluffy]

I would pass at first, and later I would try a double if I was sure it would be taken as take out, it should be as opponents have raised but I know many people who would pass.

[whereagles]

I would bid 2♥ over 1♠. Reasons: (1) overcalls of type 1x-(2x-1) are highly obstructive, (2) I have shortish spades and an offensive hand, and (3) if they don't play spades, it may be lead directing.

 

Then pass 3♦ with a "mission accomplished" feeling.

[Zelandakh]

If you bid here then you have to stop playing push bids. It is a matter of philosophy - if you like Robson-Segal (most of BBF do, no?) then this is a pass; if a more traditional approach then competing further makes sense.

[mr1303]

If I pass the first time then I think I have to act - I actually have quite a good hand for the first pass.

 

If I bid the first time then this is an auto-pass.

[MrAce]

Nice topic. I agree with the other posters. I personally like to pass first and dbl 3♠ just like Gonzalo.

[mycroft]

If I play OBAR BIDS (which I do), then partner has one or two spades, 5 diamonds and probably not 4 hearts - and almost any point count. With as much as I have, it's likely in the "almost" category, even with 1-2-3 from the opponents.

 

That doubleton spade scares me. Three, or one would be much nicer.

 

I think I DSI double and hope that we're not 3-to-500 into 140. Like others, I don't think they'll double partner's 4-level call; but at matchpoints, it might be a "well, I have to double to protect", depending on the pair - or it might be a "I've got more-than-minimum" double. But it might be one of those doubles that pushes them to -50 themselves.

 

Another reason to pass, throughout, however, is the opponents. Are they the type that "won't be pushed around, ever"? I mean, is my double just a raise to game? Again, that doubleton spade scares me. No trump loser and hearts 5-4-3-1 around the room and 10 tricks might easily be there.

 

But I'm too much a pessimist to play this game, I know that.

[broze]

Forgive my ignorance Zel - what is a push bid?

 

As for the hand NV I would probably overcall 2H but obv don't mind passing. Having passed I would double now any scoring.

[mikeh]

Okay, I am officially too old for this game!

 

This is a clear pass over 1S, not because we wouldn't like to compete but because partner won't understand how we could have such a short suit in a bad hand.

 

On the second round, even if double were takeout, and if partner holds a stiff spade he may disagree, wtf do we hope to accomplish?

 

Of course, if he holds xx Axx AKxxxx xx, and everything works well,we make 4H, but we aren't playing 4H. Maybe he 'should' pass and collect 100, but more likely we play 4D down 1

 

I learned (it seems, wrongly) that when one has defence and no fit, one didn't force to the 4-level: one took one's likely modest plus on defence.

 

I pass both times. I plan on leading trump. If partner backs in with a double, we play 4H.

[Zelandakh]

A push bid is when you bid in the hopes of either stealing a cheap contract or, more likely, pushing the opponents up a level. The most common time for this is a raise at the 2 level and one of the rules of playing them is not to hang partner for sticking their neck out.

[whereagles]

If you bid here then you have to stop playing push bids. It is a matter of philosophy - if you like Robson-Segal (most of BBF do, no?) then this is a pass; if a more traditional approach then competing further makes sense.

 

I take it "here" is 2nd round. Because 1st round I bid 2♥ precisely on Robson-Segal grounds.. lol.

[whereagles]

If you bid here then you have to stop playing push bids. It is a matter of philosophy - if you like Robson-Segal (most of BBF do, no?) then this is a pass; if a more traditional approach then competing further makes sense.

 

I take it "here" is 2nd round. Because 1st round I bid 2♥ precisely on Robson-Segal grounds.. lol.

[broze]

2H on the first round I admit might not be a popular choice but I see a lot of upsides: just competing and getting the lead v NT.

 

As for the double on the second round after passing. Of course you can't do this if you think p might take it as penalty but why would he do that if you've discussed your doubles. For me it is very likely to have 5H and D tolerance since with 4H and D I expect p to double 2S. Ergo p will bid 4H holding 3 card support

[Zelandakh]

I take it "here" is 2nd round. Because 1st round I bid 2♥ precisely on Robson-Segal grounds.. lol.

Yes I meant the second round. For the first round you might find the example at the bottom of page 112 enlightening. Our hand seems closer to this than to example b at the bottom of page 104, which is implied as just about the bottom end for this type of overcall.

[PhilKing]

You could make a decent cast for a diamond or the heart king, but I think a trump lead is right.

[Tramticket]

Pass and Pass for me!

 

We have maybe an eight or nine-card diamond fit, They have a likely nine-card spade fit. There don't seem to be enough trumps.

 

Partner know that we passed first time and may well have stuck his neck out to suggest a diamond lead (but I agree that a trump lead looks a good option). Let's not punish partner chasing an unlikely game contract.

[ggwhiz]

Partner know that we passed first time and may well have stuck his neck out to suggest a diamond lead

 

For the same reason this is a clear pass of 1♠ in my partnership partners 3♦ bid in a live auction like this is not a piece of cheese. We specifically agree that with a hand like that, decisions belong to the pass out seat.

 

I'm for a pass then double. Going down 1 in something white is well within our risk/reward tolerance given the chance (often) to defend 4♠ doubled and other positive outcomes. That 3♠ looks like a "push bid" and I'm pushing back.

[Free]

Poor defensive hands shouldn't overcall imo. After partner's 3♦ bid our hand doesn't really improve (partner may be pushing, OBAR principle), so pass again. If it was a 1♦ opening and I had my ♥s and ♣s reversed, I would overcall 2♣ because that's a much more annoying 1X - 2X-1 overcall than after a Major opening.

 

For the records, Robson-Segal also mentioned that you shouldn't preempt with hands like KQJxxxx and out, for the simple reason that you push opps into making game contracts. This hand is quite similar, our ♥s might be worthless in defense. Moreover, if we'd dbl 3♠ then we give declarer a much better picture of our hands, so we might even push them to a making 4♠ contract.

[whereagles]

For the records, Robson-Segal also mentioned that you shouldn't preempt with hands like KQJxxxx and out, for the simple reason that you push opps into making game contracts.

 

That's not quite true. Their example is a very definite hand and bidding situation where preempting with KQJxxxx might have that effect.

 

The actual argument is that very often preempts are judgement bids, not mechanical bids, and that consequently the player should think what may happen after the pree is done. In that reasoning it should be taken into account how likely it is that the pree induces a guess and how likely it is that the guess is right.

 

Bottom line is not "never do this or that" but rather "think first, shoot later". Which is in general good advice.. bridge and life :)

 

 

 

[ggwhiz]

so we might even push them to a making 4♠ contract.

 

Wow! I would suggest a forensic audit of your partners 3-level overcalls

[Free]

Wow! I would suggest a forensic audit of your partners 3-level overcalls

For OBAR bids you don't need the world, so no, I won't follow your suggestion...

[gszes]

I have no problem with pass the first round but it seems very ostrich

like (especially at IMPS) to pass the second time. I wonder if we held

xx Axxxx xx Axxx if that would make any difference. P bid 3d and while

we hold only slightly better than expected it is hard to imagine allowing

the opps to tread all over us when 3n is still quite plausible and we only

have to invest 1 level to find out.

 

Far too many hands similar to Kx x AKQxxx Axxx where 3n will roll. The lighter

the opening bids the more room for p to have a good hand.

 

x to show the other two suits:)

[PhilKing]

I have no problem with pass the first round but it seems very ostrich

like (especially at IMPS) to pass the second time. I wonder if we held

xx Axxxx xx Axxx if that would make any difference. P bid 3d and while

we hold only slightly better than expected it is hard to imagine allowing

the opps to tread all over us when 3n is still quite plausible and we only

have to invest 1 level to find out.

 

Far too many hands similar to Kx x AKQxxx Axxx where 3n will roll. The lighter

the opening bids the more room for p to have a good hand.

 

x to show the other two suits:)

 

I expect partner to have a 16 count here approximately 1 time in every thousand.

[mr1303]

There appear to be 2 distinct styles for 3 level overcalls. One is where a 3 level overcall shows a good hand, and partner is expected to use his values. The other is this OBAR style. If the later is being used, this hand is a clear pass.

[mr1303]

There appear to be 2 distinct styles for 3 level overcalls. One is where a 3 level overcall shows a good hand, and partner is expected to use his values. The other is this OBAR style. If the later is being used, this hand is a clear pass.