eagles123 Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 We red they white Lefty deals 1d x p QxxJxxJxxxQxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 1h not 1nt. I don't want to encourage so I promise zero with 1h. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I bid 1NT. I don't have a zero count. Unless I am playing that 1NT promises more than this, it is a very descriptive call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 1NT - unless playing the Ostrich system. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 1♥. No ostriches here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 For many including me, 1NT promises somewhat more than a horrid 6 count so they (I) have to bid 1♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 I stand with the pessimists, but I'll bid my better major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggerclub Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 1♥. And if partner rebids 2♦, I'll pass out of spite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) 1 nt, it doesn't promise extra/constructive values, doesn't misrepresent my hand, partner knows I could have stretched to bid and I have more chance of being left there than getting raised in a M Edited January 6, 2015 by jillybean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagles123 Posted January 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 1 nt, it doesn't promise any values, doesn't misrepresent my hand, partner knows I could have stretched to bid and I have more chance of being left there than getting raised in a M sorry what?? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 1 nt, it doesn't promise any values, doesn't misrepresent my hand, partner knows I could have stretched to bid and I have more chance of being left there than getting raised in a MWell, I wouldn't go as far as to say that it doesn't promise any values. This hand is a dead minimum for 1NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 What am I missing that the 1♥ bidders are seeing? It seems to me both 1♥ and 1♠ promise 0 points and 3+ cards in the suit, and I can't see any obvious reason to choose the weaker one. Also if P now forces with 2♦, I might bid 2♥ and give him a choice (well, I'd prob bid 2N, but at some point if he keeps forcing me I can give him a second choice). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggerclub Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 What am I missing that the 1♥ bidders are seeing? It seems to me both 1♥ and 1♠ promise 0 points and 3+ cards in the suit, and I can't see any obvious reason to choose the weaker one. Also if P now forces with 2♦, I might bid 2♥ and give him a choice (well, I'd prob bid 2N, but at some point if he keeps forcing me I can give him a second choice). 1H is lower and, therefore, impliedly weaker. (See Hughes, The Competitive Auction (or similar)). 1H can be either normal 4Hs and 0-8 points or "I hate you for making me bid here. Let's see if we can get out alive without being x'd." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Same as Mike, Nuno and Neil - 1♥. NOT 1NT. This is standout for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 1 nt, it doesn't promise any values, doesn't misrepresent my hand, partner knows I could have stretched to bid and I have more chance of being left there than getting raised in a M It does promise values actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 1N is usually played, for some very good reasons, as constructive. As for which major, hearts are always more suspect in this auction than spades. If partner bids 2d I bid 2n, having denied constructive values already. I have on balance more respect for the posters who chose 1N but I far prefer 1H. I don't think that calling this an ostrich bid advances the debate at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 As for which major, hearts are always more suspect in this auction than spades. Why? Presumably with a heart thrown in with the diamonds you'd bid 1♠? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbodell Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Why? Presumably with a heart thrown in with the diamonds you'd bid 1♠? The probability is such that there are very few hands that bid 1♠ that are fake, especially if you agree that all 3343 too weak to bid 1nt bid ♥ not ♠. Put a ♥ in with the ♦ and I consider pass and 1nt much more seriously (along with the fake 1♠). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wank Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 i would never bid 1M with this shape - partner is quite likely to be pretty strong after rho's pass and is prone to bidding vulnerable games aggressively . though he knows you might occasionally have a 3 card suit, there's not much he can do about it - bidding 2D - 2/3NT doesn't suddenly show your heart suit was faked. i'd bid 2c rather than 1M if i needed to. as it is, i have something roughly resembling a 1NT bid, so i'll do that. my minor honours are decent enough if LHO is on lead, which hopefully, is what we can force him to be several times during the play. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 1♥. I do not claim that I will land on my feet. When partner makes a TOx, partner wants us to bid a suit, and preferably a major, which is why many doubles has less HCP than many opening bids. Over a minor, 1N definitely shows more than a trashy 6, but over 1♥, and especially 1♠, 1N can be a little shaded since we are out of space. This is CW, but I also wonder if there as been a sea change in the last few years, as doubling on 4333's has become more in vogue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 For me, 1 nt does not show a constructive hand, I have fixed my original post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 1♥. I do not claim that I will land on my feet. Actually.. either pard passes 1♥ (which should have a play for) or he bids on, in which we have a dead-easy rebid: THREE NO TRUMPS :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 1N is usually played, for some very good reasons, as constructive. Please explain why, and what is constructive here, 8-10? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Per Lawrence in his book on takeout doubles the range depends on what LHO opened. It can be roughly 4-10 to respond 1nt. The higher the suit the more cramped.After 1d, it looks like the range is roughly 6-10. 874...Q74...QJ5...J873 would be a "disgusting" minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycroft Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 When partner makes a takeout double, she is counting as part of her hand strength, "dummy points for shortness". The taught requirements are "support (Qxx or xxxx) for all unbid suits, and an opening hand *counted as dummy*" (yeah, and then we teach "well, sometimes you have to lie a bit" and then we teach what the ex-juniors/experts are saying on BBF "well, if I end up in a 4-2 club fit I'll eat it; I have to get both majors in here", and then...) She is asking you to bid a suit, "knowing" there's a fit and suitable strength (even if it's zero). She does *not* want to hear you bid NT - it likely downvalues her hand a fair amount - especially as a fair quantity of your limited high cards are "wasted" providing the stopper. Therefore, it's very reasonable to require enough strength that the downvalue of her hand won't be an issue (I don't mind 6; I'd expect good 6-9; the 6 in the OP aren't 6 to me, though, even if the "wastage" is Jxxx and not Kx or the like). Now, because it's sensible to need "constructive values" to bid NT (to be safe opposite the 4414 9-count that is a happy double), people start expecting it (and so, when the doubler has the "too strong to NT" double, or the "double-and-bid" double, or even the 4414 or (34)(15) 15- or 16-count, they'll blast or at least investigate game) and that can lead to very poor results if you don't actually have that hand. If you bid 1♥ on these kinds of "you forced me to bid" hands, partner won't hang you quite so badly, quite so often, because your low end is still "2352 yarborough". A really ugly result, which I have seen, is -470 into nothing after the air gets competitive, and partner takes your "I have trump tricks" seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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