Overcall or double?

[Wackojack]

[hv=pc=n&s=sq5hakqj542dq3caq&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=1d]133|200[/hv]

[jillybean]

X, my overcalls can be a few as 6 hcp. xx,AQxxx,xxx,xxx

[mgoetze]

You don't have a preempt, so why bid one? The choice for me is between 1♥ and double, not 4♥ and double.

[Jinksy]

With Qx in their suit, I'm less worried about the bidding coming back to me at the 5-level. Even if I weren't, there's just no way I can bid any number of hearts and expect P to find slam when it's on.

[Tramticket]

Double seems obvious. Partner will never believe you are this strong if you pre-empt.

 

Double, followed by 4 hearts, gives your partner good information to judge your strength when a high level decision is needed.

[mikeh]

X, my overcalls can be a few as 6 hcp. xx,AQxxx,xxx,xxx

while I agree with the double, my advice is that with xx AQxxx xxx xxx red v white, you should pass at all forms of scoring. You are asking for trouble, and not merely or even mainly at the 1-level. You have a partner who may feel it appropriate to bid his or her hand, and be disappointed when you don't hold one of your own.

[rmnka447]

Double first. You need to start showing the value of your hand. It's much too strong to bid just 1 ♥. Yeah, the pointed suit queens probably aren't worth full weight, but still you have a 20 count with a solid suit.

 

If opener has a minimum -- say a 12 count -- there may 7 or 8 HCP out there between partner and responder. If the remaining points split evenly, partner might just have enough for game to be on. Then again, partner might be bust and you might have trouble making more than 8 tricks. Since you can't know what partner holds, you need to bring partner into the loop to decide how high to go.

 

If it comes back at something like 2 ♦, I'd be strongly inclined to bid 3 ♥ inviting partner to bid 4 with a perceived positive feature. An A, ♠ KJ or a pointed suit stiff with a trump fit would be enough.

[masonbarge]

Double except playing with the GIB. You'd end up in 6♠ across from Kxxxx in spades.

[the hog]

This is a double. Nothing else comes to mind.

[upsman]

i wonder , if theres somebody in world, who wont double.

after 1♥ normally it will go on like this:

 

1♦ - 1♥ - pass - pass - pass

 

congrats, in this case you lost at least full game.

[fourdad]

Double is automatic.

[Wackojack]

[hv=pc=n&s=sq5hakqj542dq3caq&w=sa9872hdk98c98652&n=sjth8763dj72cjt73&e=sk643ht9dat654ck4&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=1d4h4sppp]399|300[/hv]

 

This was at the local club pairs evening. On the previous board West had berated his partner for underbidding. Perhaps East's exceptionally light opening bid of 1♦had something to do with this. 4♠ was made giving us a bottom.

 

I am chastened by the poll results because I overcalled 4♥ intending it to shut out west. :( It didn't. MP pairs influenced me to go for the bash bid.

 

Had I doubled I don't think we would have fared any better. Bidding probably would go:

1♦-(x)-1♠-p-(2♠)-4♥-(4♠) -all pass? If we by any chance bid 5♥ we almost certainly go for 500.

 

btw My partner didnt like my 4H bid either

[diana_eva]

I think if you start with 4♥ you have to double 4♠ to show a good hand. Now partner with that fit might bid 5♥ and opps may or may not bid 5♠ but I'm not sure they'd double 5♥. On this hand they won't, dunno how likely it is that they would on a different layout.

[mcphee]

The fact you got a zero because the room failed to bid a cold 4!S (+1 on H lead) is not your fault. I would be happier to overcall 1H, I'll get another chance, we may belong in NT. Yes you have lots of playing tricks, but not so much defence really.

[rhambha]

I would dble and then jump to H

[whereagles]

Theoretical approach: dbl + 4♥. Seems safe, as our hcp load makes it unlikely pard will find some silly advance like 4♠ http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif

 

Practical approach: direct 4♥ + dbl if opps butt-in.

[K1W1]

Double then a suit should show at least 16 points. Shows partner the difference between this hand and a normal overcall

[biggerclub]

Well I am alone at 4♥ . . . except for whereagle's practical approach (apparently not voted in the poll).

 

I am not worried about missing slam. Even less so when we find out it's matchpoints. (If you want to give partner every point in the deck, then you have to allow me to give opener a full opening bid.)

 

I am not all that proud of my 5 loser hand, despite 20 HCPs.

 

To me, this is last guess territory. So I say 4Hs. btw -- this is not a defensively oriented hand at all. 1 trick in ♥ (maybe) and 1 in ♣ so I am not doubling to show extra defense or anything like that.

[whereagles]

Double then a suit should show at least 16 points. Shows partner the difference between this hand and a normal overcall

 

Right. But what good will that do to him? He's broke, so will pass a direct or delayed 4♥ 98% of the time. And the other 2% he'll huddle and pass anyway :)

 

Anyway, just kidding. Dbl + bid signals defensive values. Bid + dbl signals a more offensive hand.

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&s=sq5hakqj542dq3caq&w=sa9872hdk98c98652&n=sjth8763dj72cjt73&e=sk643ht9dat654ck4&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=1d4h4sppp]399|300| This was at the local club pairs evening. On the previous board West had berated his partner for underbidding. Perhaps East's exceptionally light opening bid of 1♦had something to do with this. 4♠ was made giving us a bottom. I am chastened by the poll results because I overcalled 4♥ intending it to shut out west. :( It didn't. MP pairs influenced me to go for the bash bid. Had I doubled I don't think we would have fared any better. Bidding probably would go:

1♦-(x)-1♠-p-(2♠)-4♥-(4♠) -all pass? If we by any chance bid 5♥ we almost certainly go for 500. btw My partner didnt like my 4H bid either

[/hv]

IMO 3♦ (Stop ask) = 10, Double = 9, 1♥ = 8, 3N = 7, 4♥ = 6

But As WackoJack implies, this deal illustrates why a direct 4♥ is often the most effective call on such hands. After a 1♥ overcall, opponents would easily find their ♠ fit. Wackojack's more practical 4♥ overcall failed to win the auction only because LHO took a brave view.

 

 

 

 

 

[nige1]

The fact you got a zero because the room failed to bid a cold 4!S (+1 on H lead) is not your fault.

If your opponents make 4♠+1, then it's your fault, whether or not you lead a ♥ :)

[nekthen]

Interesting hand that shows the power of the spade suit and being white v red.

If the bidding does go 1♦ x 1♠ p 2♠

Perhaps South should consider his chances of getting 4♠ down and pass!

I doubt whether West would seriously consider 4♠ when South could well have a more typical hand for his double

[nekthen]

This hand is a super example of how bad the HCP hand evaluation can be and how powerful the spade suit is.

Consider the position for South after 1♦ x 1♠ p 2♠

 

4♥ looks completely normal, but you are practically telling opps to bid 4♠ and you know you cannot beat it!

If you pass, opps will not place you with a heart stack and are likely to take their plus score and pass. You will at least beat those in 5♥.

[whereagles]

Wackojack's more practical 4♥ overcall failed to win the auction only because LHO took a brave view.

 

Brave/reckless [strikeout where appropriate, depending on the result].

 

I've seen much more reasonable 4♠ bids going for 1700... Gonzalo has seen that too.. lol.

[nekthen]

Interesting hand that shows the power of the spade suit and the short comings of the hcp hand evaluation

 

IMO Double is clearly best. The second bid is interesting though:

1♦ x 1♠ p

2♠ ?

 

IMO you should now pass! You know what will happen if you bid 4♥, opps will bid 4♠ and you can see that it is working, partner will have no tricks and you have 2/3. If you pass opps will not know about the heart stack and are unlikely to bid. Conceding 170 is better than 420 or 200 from 5♥. On losing trick count West is worth 4♠, but may well decide that a plus is good and there may be a bad trump break and maybe some of partner's values are in hearts. Bidding 4♥ after the double just paints the picture for opps to make the right call.