How to bid these hands

[SimonFa]

A newish partnership playing 2/1 and if in doubt Gibberish applies. This came up in a Speedball and we are exploring how we should have bid. I thought it would be informative to do a bit of crowd sourcing as well.

 

Both Vul

 

♠AK ♥Q8432 ♦AK73 ♣93

 

 

♠- ♥K ♦Q86 ♣AKQJT7542

 

At the table I just lazily blasted 5C even though, IIRC, we weren't under any time pressure. I agree with partner that the best opening is 1C, which as we play it as 2+, is very unlikely to be passed out.

 

We took advice after the tourney about 2C as I wasn't sure but something made me think it wasn't a legal bid in ACBL land and that was confirmed by some TDs ,although they said its marginal. (I think it's legal in EBU land where 8.5 playing tricks is acceptable for 2C openings but happy to be corrected.)

 

So, assuming I start 1C how do you see the bidding going?

 

And how do you see it going if LHO over calls a weak 2S?

 

As always, thanks in advance,

 

Simon

[mgoetze]

Pretty awful hand for standardish methods. After 1♣-1♥ you are just too strong for 3♣, and 3NT doesn't exactly feel right either. Which leaves you with a fake reverse into 2♦. I guess if you choose that it will be impossible for partner to stay out of slam, some kind of Blackwood ideally revealing that 6NT is better than 7any.

[mike777]

5c vul seems like a reasonable option, north might raise to 6.

[ggwhiz]

I think your partner owes you a raise especially if it's matchpoints and even more so if you open 1♣ and bid 5♣ next.

 

Just last night (matchpoint speedball) my rho opened a vul 4♠ and his partner raised to 6♠ with a ♠void, ♥AKTxxx, ♦QTx, ♣AKQx

 

I smashed that with ♦AK and a trump trick for -1660 when my lead got ruffed. The opponents were both NABC champions. Now I know why but at least I estimated my score correctly.

[whereagles]

5♣ is a quite valid practical bid. Pard should not, in my opinion, bid 6 because it's far from given that there are no trump losers.

[nekthen]

1♣ 1♥ 3♣ 4♦ 4♥ 4N 5♥ 6N

 

1♣ 2♠ double 4♠

5♣ and probably all pass though p may punt 6♣ because we have been pushed out of a making 3N

 

BTW. BBO system notes States 1♣ 1 any 3♣ Shows 17-20 hcp and 6+ clubs. Surely far closer to what we have than some fake reverse. I might reverse if the club suit is poor, but that is not the case here. I have noticed a tendency to rebid at the three level with any old opening hand that has a six card suit. This should be handled by a 2♣ rebid.

[mgoetze]

BBO system notes States 1♣ 1 any 3♣ Shows 17-20 hcp and 6+ clubs.

Which notes do you mean exactly? I would be very surprised to see any advanced+ player rebid 3♣ in a standard system with 20 HCP.

 

Is it possible you are talking about GIB's system and the strength is 17-20 "total points", rather than 17-20 HCP?

[fourdad]

5C is more than reasonable. 1H promised 6pts and 4 hearts.

 

As a minor suit game needs a revalued 29 points and pard can easily value his hand at 16 the only issues are controls. Since there is no bidding room left, 6C is automatic.

 

A 5D cue bid would be a chocie between 6 or 7 would it not?

 

Stiil opener bids 6C.

[nekthen]

Which notes do you mean exactly? I would be very surprised to see any advanced+ player rebid 3♣ in a standard system with 20 HCP.

 

Is it possible you are talking about GIB's system and the strength is 17-20 "total points", rather than 17-20 HCP?

 

I am quoting GIB. I looked around and no one is unanimous about the values for a jump rebid. Clearly though it is a hand not good enough to open 2♣ and too good to rebid 2♣. GIBs notes do say 17-20 HCP, but it seems reasonable to assume that they mean total points. It is not a forcing bid but highly invitational. It would not be hard to construct a hand that can respond 1♥ and find that 3♣ is the last making contract. Losing the the first 4 tricks and 3N is just a punt, although many may choose the match point opening of 3N, which has not been mentioned as a possibility I doubt whether it is possible to find 6 then, but you will beat all those in 5 clubs.

 

Whatever, I think that 3♣ is superior to 2!♦, even if you play 2♦ as forcing. I can picture partner passing with a rubbish 4441 hand or even 4531 that would be embarrassing with 3♣ certain

[mgoetze]

Whatever, I think that 3♣ is superior to 2!♦, even if you play 2♦ as forcing. I can picture partner passing with a rubbish 4441 hand or even 4531 that would be embarrassing with 3♣ certain

Alright, well, if you can picture your partners passing out a reverse bid, we don't have a lot to talk about obviously. :P

[The_Badger]

Hi Simon. Rule of 2 or 3 for pre-emptive hands suggests 5♣ is a reasonable opening bid, even though technically you are a tad strong for 5♣ as an opening. North has 4 quick tricks so should trust you and raise to 6♣ in my opinion.

 

Same applies if you open 1♣, West overcalls 2♠, and North doubles. You then would bid 5♣ again, and North with his generously-pointed/quick tricky hand should again raise to 6♣.

 

As for opening 2♣ don't even contemplate it. 2♣ opening bids should be made on hands with quick trick potential, not single suiters that look pre-emptive.

 

The great late Rixi Markus, I believe, would open 5♣ with this hand without a moment's thought. Let the opponents make the final guess is always a good ploy. Opening 1♣ may allow them to enter the auction, and with 25 major suit cards at large, they possibly have a good major suit fit somewhere. If partner has a lesser hand than he has, then it will be difficult for him to judge whether it is an offensive or defensive hand. Opening 5♣ sends a clear message to him.

[Jinksy]

Alright, well, if you can picture your partners passing out a reverse bid, we don't have a lot to talk about obviously. :P

 

To be fair, if you allow responder to bid on very weak hands, this isn't inconceivable. I've seen FrancesHinden talk about passing P's reverses in such cases, and since PhantomSac was talking about playing with some Ps that 1C is forcing when NV, I imagine he'd agree.

[kgr]

Both Vul

♠AK ♥Q8432 ♦AK73 ♣93

 

♠- ♥K ♦Q86 ♣AKQJT7542

Trying what it gives with my system. I would show this as GF with ♣ and this is included in 2♦ opening:

2♦-2NT (Multi; Asking relay)

4♣-4♦ (GF ♣; ♦-control)

4♥-4♠ (control)

4NT-5♠ (RKC; 2aces and ♣Q)

6♣-AP

 

- To 4NT opener can also respond 5NT iso 5♠. 5NT shows 2 aces and a void:

2♦-2NT (Multi; Asking relay)

4♣-4♦ (GF ♣; ♦-control)

4♥-4♠ (control)

4NT-5NT (RKC; 2aces and a void)

6♥-6NT (Do you have ♥-void?; No)

AP

[scarletv]

Trying what it gives with my system. I would show this as GF with ♣ and this is included in 2♦ opening:

2♦-2NT (Multi; Asking relay)

4♣-4♦ (GF ♣; ♦-control)

4♥-4♠ (control)

4NT-5♠ (RKC; 2aces and ♣Q)

6♣-AP

 

- To 4NT opener can also respond 5NT iso 5♠. 5NT shows 2 aces and a void:

2♦-2NT (Multi; Asking relay)

4♣-4♦ (GF ♣; ♦-control)

4♥-4♠ (control)

4NT-5NT (RKC; 2aces and a void)

6♥-6NT (Do you have ♥-void?; No)

AP

Opener asking RKCB not responder? Sure about 4♠ bid?

[kgr]

Opener asking RKCB not responder? Sure about 4♠ bid?

Better if responder bids RKCB after opener showed a ♥-control

[letsplay17]

In my neck of the woods, we bid 2c with 9 tricks

so the bidding would go 2c, 2d 3c Iwould think then to 6c

possibly with a 4nt check on aces by responder just in case.

[Lovera]

But with a suit like this compact and without losers i know that is non good to make a barrage (also against partner) because we can avoid a possible 3NT or how in this case a slam making difficultose bidding.