wynsten Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 [hv=pc=n&s=skt9h62daq53ckt43&w=sj72hqt8djt9caj52&sn=Wynsten&n=saq3hakj75dk86c96&e=s8654h943d742cq87&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1dp1hp1np6nppp]399|300[/hv]My partner must have had a crystal ball, because, as you can see, this 29 HCP 6NT rolls home with the ♥Q onside and tripleton and diamonds 3-3. After the ♦J lead I counted my tricks several times and came to eight each time. So how did I make an overtrick and was my line of play the right one? PS: two other tables (out of 16) were in 6NT making, but with much more scientific bidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 I don't find this sort of hand interesting. It shows bad bridge getting lucky, that's all. As for the overtrick, I assume you tried a club to the K at some fairly early stage and LHO ducked, hoping you had KQ and would try it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wynsten Posted December 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 I don't find this sort of hand interesting. It shows bad bridge getting lucky, that's all. As for the overtrick, I assume you tried a club to the K at some fairly early stage and LHO ducked, hoping you had KQ and would try it again.Well, yes - it does show bad bridge getting lucky, but that's not the point. You're right, of course, that I played a club to the King, and West ducked (the other suits can provide only 12 tricks). My question is: given this hand, what is the best way to play for 12 tricks. Was I right to play on clubs before testing diamonds. The danger in testing diamonds first is that East may have ♣A and four diamonds. The danger in trying clubs first is that you may go down with 12 tricks on top (as could have happened to me). Which line is best? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillPatch Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Taking the club finesse first is the better move. Most of the time opening leader with the A of ♣ against a no trump slam should cash it, according to Bird-Anthias. So East probably has the A, and if he doesn't there is always the chance that East holds the Q, so West in the present case may miss guess clubs after winning the A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillPatch Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Taking the club finesse first is the better move. Most of the time opening leader with the A of ♣ against a no trump slam should cash it, according to Bird-Anthias. So East probably has the A, and if he doesn't there is always the chance that East holds the Q, so West in the present case may miss guess clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 It is close, imo, because of the diamond lead, which might suggest a 4 card holding. There isn`t much risk to the play. About the only time it leads to a set right away is when LHO holds AQ. All bad players will win the A if they hold it, but few (if any) would return the suit if they lack the Q. Some decent players would win the Ace as well, lacking the Q, but I would expect most better players to duck in this situation on any given hand. However, not on this hand. West was one of those players who had a little knowledge, but not enough. He `knew` that it was usually correct to duck smoothly, but he failed to think about the hand. There is no holding, consistent with the auction, for which ducking the A can ever win. I won`t lay it all out, but if you doubt this proposition, spend a bit of time looking at dummy, LHO`s hand and the auction. Meanwhile, there are obvious hands where ducking costs an overtrick. The actual hand is one, and hardly unexpected, given that you could presumably have all that you had plus the club Q. What sometimes happens, and may have happened here, is that LHO wasn`t expecting the club play early and had learned that it is usually better to duck smoothly than to think about it. Of course, the point is that with his hand, he ought to have thought about your tricks before you played to trick 2. As LHO, if declarer plays quickly, and I suspect you probably didn`t, since your path to 12 tricks isn`t 100% clear, I always take my time turning over my card to trick one until I have had some time to think. I am not claiming I would win the A and return the suit, but winning the Ace is clearly correct....the duck is what Woolsey (iirc) calls a `zero`play: it never wins and sometimes loses, so it has zero going for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wynsten Posted December 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Taking the club finesse first is the better move. Most of the time opening leader with the A of ♣ against a no trump slam should cash it, according to Bird-Anthias. So East probably has the A, and if he doesn't there is always the chance that East holds the Q, so West in the present case may miss guess clubs after winning the A.Maybe West hasn't read Bird-Anthias, or has and doesn't believe them.Do Bird and Anthias take into account the inference you give declarer by adopting this practice. Maybe you defeat a few more contracts when you have an Ace to cash, but how many get away because not leading an Ace places it with partner (the dog that didn't bark syndrome). I remain skeptical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gszes Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Bad bidding sometimes works just as good bidding sometimes fails. This hand is "interesting" mainly because the right play (leading toward the club K early in the hand is a better bet than 33 diamonds) should lead to an immediate set sinceIMHO rho should have inserted the club Q. Surely declarer has as most 4 clubs given the bidding so why is declarer leading a club at trick 2? if they have the AJT AKJ KJT inserting the Q will be irrelevant BUT what if it is like the hand in the problem??? There are obviously no transportation problems so ducking the Q and forcing declarer to finesse again is not an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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