bid at 4 level

[shanbari]

team game, IMPS,

 

LHO Partner RHO me

3H 4C 4H ??

 

expecting Partner's 4C is sound, what method do you use in this auction while

holding either weak or strong hand ?

 

this is one of the hand in bbo, what's you decision here,

 

 

[hv=v=n&s=saqjtxhkxxdjxxckq]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

 

thanks,

 

SHAN

[whereagles]

I don't feel like trying something "clever" so I bid 6NT.

[Flame]

I think 6c would be safer then 6nt, it will also go down much less when both contracts fail (vul not givven but getting -100 is still better then -600)

At imp i would bid 5H, at mp 6nt.

[shanbari]

6c and 6nt are quite practical bids here.

 

however is there anyway to introduce the spade suit and forcing bids?

4s doesn't seem to be forcing bid by me. and thinking of 4nt rkc first, then looking for SK? such as 4nt - 5H; 5S to ask for spade K ?

 

 

SHAN

[pclayton]

Try 5N. Pass 6♣ and pull 6♦ to 6♠.

 

There's nothing wrong with 6N, but 5N gives pard the chance to cue the heart void with a big hand.

[Fluffy]

4NT to bid 6 or 7♣

[jdulmage]

[hv=v=n&s=saqjtxhkxxdjxxckq]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

6♣ is probably my bid. Don't want to take a chance that partner is void in spades, and something isn't sitting right. Could be a quick down 1 in 6NT.

[mike777]

5NT

 

Pick a slam, not Grand slam force.

[Rebound]

5NT

 

Pick a slam, not Grand slam force.

Conceeding for a sec that I can be pretty dense sometimes, I don't see how 5NT can mean to pick a slam. From what options is partner expected to choose? 4♣ presumably shows a one-suited hand and with both opps bidding hearts, I don't see how your partner would expect you to have a heart stop on the given auction. Please elaborate.

 

For my part, I'm worried about the diamond suit. What to do about that, I don't know. But I think I'd take the pessimistic view and bid 4♠. To me, this implies club support so partner may be able to find another bid. The fact that this doesn't agree with the posts so far shows I am probably totally wrong, but that's likely what I would do at the table.

[jdulmage]

5NT

 

Pick a slam, not Grand slam force.

Conceeding for a sec that I can be pretty dense sometimes, I don't see how 5NT can mean to pick a slam. From what options is partner expected to choose? 4♣ presumably shows a one-suited hand and with both opps bidding hearts, I don't see how your partner would expect you to have a heart stop on the given auction. Please elaborate.

 

For my part, I'm worried about the diamond suit. What to do about that, I don't know. But I think I'd take the pessimistic view and bid 4♠. To me, this implies club support so partner may be able to find another bid. The fact that this doesn't agree with the posts so far shows I am probably totally wrong, but that's likely what I would do at the table.

You challenge the previous poster's 5NT bid as "pick a slam" and want elaboration on it and then you have the nerve to say you would bid 4♠ and expect your partner to automatically think you have club support.

 

4♠ says "let's play spades", nothing else. So you'll end up playing there.

[flytoox]

I don't feel like trying something "clever" so I bid 6NT.

I think this is right action. Pd bid 4C with AJTxxxxx. He should have quite good D cards. We shld have enought tricks for 6N. It is possible we missed 7C but I will accept it.

[Rebound]

You challenge the previous poster's 5NT bid as "pick a slam" and want elaboration on it and then you have the nerve to say you would bid 4♠ and expect your partner to automatically think you have club support.

 

4♠ says "let's play spades", nothing else.  So you'll end up playing there.

Firstly, allow me to apologize if I somehow indicated my post was some sort of expert opinion. I merely requested further information as to how 5NT would mean "pick a slam" for my own edification. Secondly, yes, to introduce a new suit at the 4-level on this auction would imply that I can handle partner running back to his suit, at least with the methods normally employed in my regular partnerships. Perhaps this is not the same thing as support, but my intent was the same, hence the word "imply". I fail to understand where "nerve" enters the picture. In fact, I would remind you that my post concluded with, "I am probably totally wrong, but that's likely what I would do at the table." That is, in fact the reason for the post. 4♠ seems like the natural call to me, but it is apparently not correct so I was interested in comments about it. However, I can see I will have to be more careful in the way I express myself if my posts elicit responses like yours.

[luke warm]

However, I can see I will have to be more careful in the way I express myself if my posts elicit responses like yours.

don't worry about it, your post was well-worded... you gave no offense in the way you framed your question (at least you didn't in an objective, ie impartial, sense - only mike can actually say if he was offended heheh)

[the hog]

This would be bit of a problem for me, as 4C would show C and S. I am going out on a limb here, but I actually don't mind 5S. Pd and I have discussed this as showing a force to 6C with a good S suit. Pd can now decide for himself what the best spot is.

 

I realise this is not standard treatment, but think about it, what else should 5S mean? Bid 6 with good S? Is this a more likely probability than the hand I have got?

 

Ron

[Guest Jlall]

Not sure why you got your head bitten off rebound but don't worry about it :D

 

For starters, what would you bid if you had 7 or 8 spades? 4S i would imagine, that is why 4S says "i have spades." If you were a passed hand, where having that many spades is pretty much not possible, 4S would imply a club fit, but not as an unpassed hand.

 

Second, many experts play 5N in *almost* all auctions as pick a slam, unless very very very obvious GSF (or in a keycard auction). The reasoning is strain is more important than level. Getting to the right fit is of primary importance, and all tools that help you do that are good, especially in preempted auctions. you may have a diamond/spade 2 suiter, planning to convert 6C to 6D. Or you may want to offer a choice between spades and NT. I agree that usually pard will bid 6C, but sometimes he might bid a side diamond suit (or spade). Please continue to ask questions, it cant hurt.

[Rebound]

Righto, fair enough.

[TimG]

You challenge the previous poster's 5NT bid as "pick a slam" and want elaboration on it and then you have the nerve to say you would bid 4♠ and expect your partner to automatically think you have club support.

 

4♠ says "let's play spades", nothing else.  So you'll end up playing there.

Firstly, allow me to apologize if I somehow indicated my post was some sort of expert opinion. I merely requested further information as to how 5NT would mean "pick a slam" for my own edification. Secondly, yes, to introduce a new suit at the 4-level on this auction would imply that I can handle partner running back to his suit, at least with the methods normally employed in my regular partnerships. Perhaps this is not the same thing as support, but my intent was the same, hence the word "imply". I fail to understand where "nerve" enters the picture. In fact, I would remind you that my post concluded with, "I am probably totally wrong, but that's likely what I would do at the table." That is, in fact the reason for the post. 4♠ seems like the natural call to me, but it is apparently not correct so I was interested in comments about it. However, I can see I will have to be more careful in the way I express myself if my posts elicit responses like yours.

I found nothing wrong with the tone of our post -- no "nerve". But, I do not thik 4♠ has to imply any club support. What would you bid with AKQJxx xxx xxx x or AQJTxx xxx Kxx x, or even AKQJTxx xxx xxx --?

 

Tim

[shanbari]

[hv=n=skxxhdaxxcajtxxxx&s=saqjtxhkxxdjxxckq]133|200|[/hv]

 

 

I didn't actually play this hand, and saw the bidding went as following

(3H) 4C (4H) 4S

all pass

 

 

7 was made as soon as the bidding finished. :rolleyes:

 

 

SHAN

[Rebound]

Well, while I have come to agree that 4♠ is not the bid to make here, with the hand shown I think another bid over 4♠ is a must.

[TimG]

Passing 4S seems quite conservative.

[mike777]

As I mentioned, as well as Phil, at least 5nt gives you a chance to reach 7. Always difficult to reach underpoint grand slam after Opp. preempt.

[Winstonm]

First, I would not consider 4S forcing.

 

Second, I'm not so certain about this 5N pick a slam bid in this situation - which two slams does pard have from which to pick? You can't expect him to bid 6N. All in all, I'd have to take this bid as a grand slam force unless otherwise agreed upon.

 

Third, I prefer in this auction to use 5H as a general slam force with grand slam in the picture but it does not guarantee 1st round heart control. That still leaves 5N as GSF if I hold:

 

Axxx

void

AKQ10xx

Kxx

 

WinstonM

[Free]

I think MY HAND has to play the contract, to protect ♥K unless partner has singleton/void in ♥ (how can you find out?). I'd bid 4♠, fit showing (KQ is good enough imo).