Bad bidding or bad luck

[andy_h]

I like a style where I can choose between opening 1M or 1NT (although you'd generally need some system follow-ups after 1M-1NT or 1H-1S). If I can choose, I would almost always choose to open 1M with a small doubleton, so 1H is what I would open here.

[dickiegera]

sorry

[somajigoma]

THE BOOK ? Which "the book"? It's absolutely silly to open this hand 1NT as the hand is not oriented for NT at all.Look, there is the disgusting xx in clubs and almost open diamond suit.13HCP concentrated in hearts and spades plus a 5 card major suit are all against a no trump bid.4 And half defensive tricks which will be useful if opponents intervene over 1Heart opening but not in notrumps .Well my international friend opened 1No trump and opponents scored the first NINE tricks and deservedly got a big zero.To rub salt,all the other 23 pairs played quietly in 2 or 3 hearts making comfortably.The problem poser got a bad result as he followed the book bid blindly. I am sure the author would have opened nothing else than a straight forward 1Heart and the bidding would have gone 1H-p-2H-P-3C(short suit try)-p-4H all pass.Sorry,no sympathy for such a poor opening bid chosen,and don't blame the luck at all.

[ggwhiz]

THE BOOK ? Which "the book"? It's absolutely silly to open this hand 1NT as the hand is not oriented for NT at all.

 

So after 1♥ and a 1♠ (or 1nt) response you bid?

 

Imo you have as many warts. Not saying your style isn't playable but calling 1nt "silly" is an overbid.

[somajigoma]

So after 1♥ and a 1♠ (or 1nt) response you bid?

 

Imo you have as many warts. Not saying your style isn't playable but calling 1nt "silly" is an overbid.

Here Sir,answers to your query .2spade over 1Spade.Pass over 1 NT unless it is of forcing variety.1NT by partner denies a 3 card support and also four cards of spades and no good 10 HCP. no trump will certainly play better from his hand.And lastly Sir you can construct many hands where neither a 1Heart or 1Nt opening will lead to PAR contracts.As I said 1 NT went 3 down in the example I quoted.If you do follow the losing trick count theory after a 5 card major system you will always get more than 90 % correct contracts and the system which works 90 % is the best system.Yours truly,Somajigomaji (real name withheld)Indian National Master.

[dickiegera]

sorry

[MrAce]

Here Sir,answers to your query .2spade over 1Spade.Pass over 1 NT unless it is of forcing variety.1NT by partner denies a 3 card support and also four cards of spades and no good 10 HCP. no trump will certainly play better from his hand.And lastly Sir you can construct many hands where neither a 1Heart or 1Nt opening will lead to PAR contracts.As I said 1 NT went 3 down in the example I quoted.If you do follow the losing trick count theory after a 5 card major system you will always get more than 90 % correct contracts and the system which works 90 % is the best system.Yours truly,Somajigomaji (real name withheld)Indian National Master.

 

 

This is not B/N (Bragging Novice) forum, you may try this.....http://www.bridgebas...beginner-forum/

Hold on! I just read the last part of your post. Sorry m8, I see you are a national master.

And thanks for withholding the real name to prevent intimidation. Very humble of you!

Without your presence, young punks like this Phantomsac were giving lectures here. Please enlighten him, Sir National Master.

[mikeh]

This is not B/N (Bragging Novice) forum, you may try this.....http://www.bridgebas...beginner-forum/

Hold on! I just read the last part of your post. Sorry m8, I see you are a national master.

And thanks for withholding the real name to prevent intimidation. Very humble of you!

Without your presence, young punks like this Phantomsac were giving lectures here. Please enlighten him, Sir National Master.

Hi Timo

 

 

I have a vague memory of a brash new poster, joined around November 2009, I think, who used some pretty strong language criticizing the opinions of others. If he was the person I think he was, then he turned out to be a pretty good guy and one of my favourite posters :D

 

Maybe give our Indian friend a break or two this early in his posting history. I suspect he has no idea of the calibre and experience level of the better players who post here. Most players who aren't exposed to high-level bridge, and who see themselves, often correctly, as amongst the best they know, take a while to realize that being a big fish in a small pond means nothing once they get out into the ocean. And how many forums are there on the internet....and how many places in the real world....where the forums have multiple national champions, and some world champions, rubbing metaphorical shoulders with beginners and all in between?

[MrAce]

Hi Timo

 

 

I have a vague memory of a brash new poster, joined around November 2009, I think, who used some pretty strong language criticizing the opinions of others. If he was the person I think he was, then he turned out to be a pretty good guy and one of my favourite posters :D

 

Maybe give our Indian friend a break or two this early in his posting history. I suspect he has no idea of the calibre and experience level of the better players who post here. Most players who aren't exposed to high-level bridge, and who see themselves, often correctly, as amongst the best they know, take a while to realize that being a big fish in a small pond means nothing once they get out into the ocean. And how many forums are there on the internet....and how many places in the real world....where the forums have multiple national champions, and some world champions, rubbing metaphorical shoulders with beginners and all in between?

 

Actually I am pretty confident this guy is not a newcomer at all and I had my suspicions confirmed. Just wait and see http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif

[mikeh]

Actually I am pretty confident this guy is not a newcomer at all and I had my suspicions confirmed. Just wait and see http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif

The plot thickens. I shall await developments :D

[dickiegera]

sorry

[Nabooba]

Opening 1NT on this hand is not terrible. However if you have the methods to show a good 16 pointer after opening 1M, then opening 1NT is a clear error. As some have already pointed out, the hand is oriented to suit play. Of sourse, if you do not have these methods then you are forced to open 1NT otherwise you may well have problems in your rebid. Interestingly all the Polish players I have played against play a 15-17 NT which does not include a 5 card M. They do not play Gazilli as they have no need for it; they also would not open the hand with 1C as it is not strong enough. They seem to cope well though.

[biggerclub]

Maybe this poor 10-count . . .

 

So there really is a first time for everything. I disagree that this is a poor 10-ct.

 

It might be better if the system used a bid like 2C to show a strong, GF, hand and act not as Stayman, nor anything else in particular but as a simple relay asking for more information (See Hughes, "Building a Bidding System", pp 33-45). But such intelligent processes have not caught on in North America yet.

 

If Jxx in a minor isn't a stopper . . . better luck next time.

 

I am a bit more sympathetic to those who call for a 1H opening on the theory that the hand is more suit oriented . . . but that has its problems as well. As noted, what is the rebid after 1S? I guess I have to make a choice between drastically underbidding (1NT, 2S) or drastically overbidding (2NT, surely no one will venture 3S here).

[biggerclub]

THE BOOK ? Which "the book"?

 

I'm sure there are others, but Kantar's 540 Bidding Tips to Improve Your Partner's Game springs immediately to mind.

[Nabooba]

So there really is a first time for everything. I disagree that this is a poor 10-ct.

 

It might be better if the system used a bid like 2C to show a strong, GF, hand and act not as Stayman, nor anything else in particular but as a simple relay asking for more information (See Hughes, "Building a Bidding System", pp 33-45). But such intelligent processes have not caught on in North America yet.

 

If Jxx in a minor isn't a stopper . . . better luck next time.

 

I am a bit more sympathetic to those who call for a 1H opening on the theory that the hand is more suit oriented . . . but that has its problems as well. As noted, what is the rebid after 1S? I guess I have to make a choice between drastically underbidding (1NT, 2S) or drastically overbidding (2NT, surely no one will venture 3S here).

 

Gazilli?

[helene_t]

Swap Wests minor suits and I d rather be in 3nt. But preferably played by W. Maybe if I open 1h I have methods to show a 33 (43) in which case on this hand I will end up in 3nt anyway, possibly played by W. But maybe opps will bid clubs.

So I am not sure how to investigate this scientifically. In general I don't feel so strongly about the issue but with doubleton clubs and exactly 16 points and my suit is hearts and it's a suit that doesn't play well if p has xxx and they break 4-1 I think opening 1H is bad. I would open this particular hand 1nt even if playing sef.

[Jinksy]

I'm no Indian National Master, but I really don't understand opening 1♥ here if you don't play Gazzilli. Sure it's not that NTy (though on a D lead opposite the average of all relevant responding hands, do I really think 4 losers in Hs will be easier to avoid than 5 in NTs? Not sure...), but presumably no-one is really planning to rebid 1N over 1♠. If you don't feel like rebidding this crusty ♥ suit, that leaves you with the 'slight' overbid of 2N.

 

So what about if we change the Q♠ to the J? IMO the hand doesn't become any more NTy, but now the rebid problem is even worse, so surely 1N is just mandatory then? But it feels really skewed to me to say on a weaker hand of similar caliber we show our values initially and here we just wait.

 

On top of the constructive rebid problem, I don't think anyone's discussed the problem of competition, which is IMO the main value of playing a strong NT. If I open 1N on this hand, I've got it off my chest, and can sit back and let P make the decisions. If I open 1♥, what do I do if LHO calls 2♠, passed back? What about 2♦? In the latter case at least I suppose I double, but now I worry P's expecting either more strength or shape - if he bids 3♣, I don't see it ending well, and even 2M might be uncomfortable. Also after 1♥ 3m P 4m, I'm really going to feel the pressure...

[helene_t]

To be fair, I don't think any good player who opens 1h plans to rebid 2nt. 2d is the normal rebid although I suppose some would prefer to raise spades while sime would have methods that allow a 2c or 1nt rebid. With 15 you can downgrade and with 17 you can upgrade but this hand is obviously only opened 1h if you have methods to show a balanced 16 after that.

[whereagles]

What helene said is the canonical way to bid these hands on SEF, which is very close to SAYC, and doesn't allow 5CM into 1NT openings.

[sassan]

Thanks Wackojack for deep through analysis.

Still not sure when you analysed the hand in 5-3 fit, did you put the exact E-W hand into the program or program picked a random hand with 3 card hearts for W every time? this makes a big difference in the meaning of the analysis.

[Fluffy]

Playing a different system than the field is asking for bad results out of nowhere, and here you got it.