Rubbish on BBO

[the hog]

Played in a tournament yesterday, The TD said "No psyches in first or 2nd seat". When I pointed out this was not Bridge he quoted the WBF regs and even posted a link. What a load of crock. Is there no way to educate people who purport to "direct" tournaments on BBO in the rules of the game?

[1eyedjack]

Aside from competence/education of TD (or host, or powers thereof), I am intrigued to know what link he posted, and did he quote some specific text? The only relevant WBF links that I could find were here

 

http://www.worldbrid...gguidelines.pdf

 

which I found from the "psychic bidding guidelines" link off here

 

http://www.worldbrid...f-policies.aspx

 

 

There is also some commentary in paragraph 4.4 of the WBF general conditions of contest (page 11) here:

 

http://www.worldbrid...nsofcontest.pdf

 

 

All of this seems to contradict the TD statement "no psyches in first or 2nd seat".

 

 

Did you pay money to play in this tourney? With the free ones you get what you pay for. In the Acol club (free) tourneys psychs are banned in all seats, in all (pairs) tourneys. Count yourself lucky perhaps.

 

 

 

 

 

[Lord Molyb]

I don't recall any laws that permit or forbid any type of call based on which hand dealt.

[steve2005]

They didn't specify what jurisdiction the tournament was in. in ACBLland psychs are allowed in all seats.

[paulg]

Played in a tournament yesterday, The TD said "No psyches in first or 2nd seat". When I pointed out this was not Bridge he quoted the WBF regs and even posted a link. What a load of crock. Is there no way to educate people who purport to "direct" tournaments on BBO in the rules of the game?

The WBF Women's Online Festival that has been running on BBO over the last week does not permit psychic calls - Conditions of Contest (PDF). Specifically it says "Psychic are forbidden: TD will assess a 60%-40% score or will confirm the table score if poorer".

 

As this event is run by the chairman of the WBF Women's Committee, I think it is fair to say that the regulations are fully endorsed by the WBF despite the fact that they do not conform to the WBF Laws.

 

And if the WBF can do it, why shouldn't anyone on BBO?

[1eyedjack]

There is nothing to prevent anyone on BBO banning psychs. No-one suggests otherwise. They simply have to accept that they do so in contravention of the laws and as such surrender the right to call it "bridge".

 

It is outrageous that an event sanctioned by WBF should stoop so low.

 

 

 

[diana_eva]

It is outrageous that an event sanctioned by WBF should stoop so low.

 

 

There's some background to this rule. The WBF event was initially organized by BBO Italia. In Italy, at club level, psych is banned to protect beginners. When the first Women's Festivals were organized, the managers (Italians) decided to apply club level regulations.

 

See Vincenzo's explanation here:

http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/45415-wbf-womens-festival/page__view__findpost__p__540947

[jillybean]

There's some background to this rule. The WBF event was initially organized by BBO Italia. In Italy, at club level, psych is banned to protect beginners. When the first Women's Festivals were organized, the managers (Italians) decided to apply club level regulations.

 

See Vincenzo's explanation here:

http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/45415-wbf-womens-festival/page__view__findpost__p__540947

 

The is an open event, why do beginners need protecting if they chose to play in this event? It is insulting and detrimental to their game.

The WBF event regulations went on to say if you make a misclick which could be interpreted as a psyche , you must immediately tell your opponent and the TD, not your partner.

This attempt to ban psyches and protect me from the game that I enjoy playing left me in no doubt that I would never play in an event with such ill-conceived regulations.

I don't want to play "nice", I want to play bridge. :)

[diana_eva]

The is an open event, why do beginners need protecting if they chose to play in this event? It is insulting and detrimental to their game.

The WBF event regulations went on to say if you make a misclick which could be interpreted as a psyche , you must immediately tell your opponent and the TD, not your partner.

This attempt to ban psyches and protect me from the game that I enjoy playing left me in no doubt that I would never play in an event with such ill-conceived regulations.

 

Because it is meant to be a friendly, social event, rather than a competitive environment. I don't know where that thing with telling your opp about a misclick comes from, looks like a mistake - as a TD there I can assure you nobody informed their opps they misclicked, nor were they forced to do so :)

[helene_t]

Weird that BBO Italia thinks that the psyche ban protects beginners. A pair of beginners playing against an advanced pair would benefit from randomness. Besides, the more sophisticated agreements you have the more the meaning of your own bids will depend on opps' bids meaning and the more sensitive you are to psyches. A pair of beginners who play almost all doubles as penalty will be relatively robust against psyches.

 

Anyway, the rules are clearly stated so you can just take it or leave it. Generally I am a bit scared of no-psyche tournaments because I fear that any bid which won't fall in the TD's taste (upgrading, 4-card overcalls, etc) might be deemed "psyches" but these tourneys have sensible directors.

[jillybean]

Because it is meant to be a friendly, social event, rather than a competitive environment. I don't know where that thing with telling your opp about a misclick comes from, looks like a mistake - as a TD there I can assure you nobody informed their opps they misclicked, nor were they forced to do so :)

 

I gave up kitchen bridge when I discovered duplicate , or at least I thought I had.

 

My apologies if my replies are a little heated, this topic gets my blood boiling.

[diana_eva]

Weird that BBO Italia thinks that the psyche ban protects beginners.

 

I think they were not aware that such rule is not standard elsewhere. On BBO most free tourneys ban psych, in Italy in live clubs psych is not allowed, I can understand why an Italian director setting up the rules for the first Women's Fest assumed this is an OK rule.

 

Later it was discussed, see the 2011 thread I linked in my previous reply, but nothing was changed. Same rules remained since the very first edition.

[diana_eva]

I gave up kitchen bridge when I discovered duplicate , or at least I thought I had.

 

My apologies if my replies are a little heated, this topic gets my blood boiling.

 

I used to feel the same way JB, but after being directly involved with this festival I changed my mind. There are a LOT of women who are afraid of tournaments, and this festival encourages them to give it a try.

[helene_t]

I don't know where that thing with telling your opp about a misclick comes from, looks like a mistake - as a TD there I can assure you nobody informed their opps they misclicked, nor were they forced to do so :)

 

http://www.wbfwomensbridgeclub.org/pdf/conditioneng.pdf

 

"Misclick is assimilated to a psychic. Player will not be penalized

if:

- Sends a private message to the TD informing about the mistake and the intended bid;

- Sends the same message to both opponents

 

This sounds very wrong to me. Much better would be just to allow undos.

[diana_eva]

http://www.wbfwomens...onditioneng.pdf

 

"Misclick is assimilated to a psychic. Player will not be penalized

if:

- Sends a private message to the TD informing about the mistake and the intended bid;

- Sends the same message to both opponents

 

This sounds very wrong to me. Much better would be just to allow undos.

 

Undo is allowed.

[Vampyr]

Because it is meant to be a friendly, social event,

 

This perception is at the root of the problem. In friendly social events you don't call the director either, do you? And you waive penalties for things like OOT actions?

 

It would be nice if everyone acknowledged that there is nothing unfriendly or antisocial about plying a game according to its rules. It makes for a more comfortable playing experience for everyone.

[jdeegan]

Doh! Any fool can devise a system to beat unsuspecting opponents. Bridge is, possibly, the best game. Keeping it under control is part of the deal.

[Vampyr]

I used to feel the same way JB, but after being directly involved with this festival I changed my mind. There are a LOT of women who are afraid of tournaments, and this festival encourages them to give it a try.

 

It's just an online tournament. Is it much different from ordinary online play, apart from the face that you change opponents rather than playing a session against the same ones?

 

I don't think that playing in this environment prepares the players to play in real tournaments; in fact they will receive quite a shock should they do so.

[diana_eva]

It's just an online tournament. Is it much different from ordinary online play, apart from the face that you change opponents rather than playing a session against the same ones?

 

I don't think that playing in this environment prepares the players to play in real tournaments; in fact they will receive quite a shock should they do so.

 

Yes, that's true. I'm not saying the rule is good and I agree a player having played only in such tourneys will have a bit of a shock in a real tournament.

 

The rules are what they are, if the WBF approved them so be it. But my experience has been that marketing the festival as a social event has worked better than marketing it as a "serious competition".

[Vampyr]

The rules are what they are, if the WBF approved them so be it. But my experience has been that marketing the festival as a social event has worked better than marketing it as a "serious competition".

 

Forgive my ignorance, but where is the social content in an event played by people sitting home alone with their computers?

[1eyedjack]

See Vincenzo's explanation here:

http://www.bridgebas...post__p__540947

 

Thanks for that link. You are right to call it an "explanation" rather than "justification". Because while it explains the decision it certainly does not go as far as providing a justification.

 

Interestingly, in his explanation there is no mention of beginners. It is to protect average players from experts. Supposedly.

 

 

 

[helene_t]

Undo is allowed.

I don't understand - the document I linked to says they are not.

[helene_t]

In friendly social events you don't call the director either, do you?

Or double opponents, or make sacrifices.

[1eyedjack]

This perception is at the root of the problem. In friendly social events you don't call the director either, do you? And you waive penalties for things like OOT actions?

 

It would be nice if everyone acknowledged that there is nothing unfriendly or antisocial about plying a game according to its rules. It makes for a more comfortable playing experience for everyone.

 

Absolutely agree.

 

Beginners take exception to psychs because they are taught to do so. Or not taught otherwise. Unfortunately there is another factor, which is the tendency of a successful psycher to crow about his result, and that does detract from the social aspect. Such behaviour could also benefit from some education.

 

 

 

 

 

[diana_eva]

Thanks for that link. You are right to call it an "explanation" rather than "justification". Because while it explains the decision it certainly does not go as far as providing a justification.

 

Interestingly, in his explanation there is no mention of beginners. It is to protect average players from experts. Supposedly.

 

 

 

 

Yes I misremembered the explanation, it was "average players" not beginners.