At the crossroads

[Free]

[hv=pc=n&s=sk852h765da63cak2&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1sp2c(GF%20relay)p2n(16%2B%20singlesuited)p3c(relay)p3h(6-7!s%2C%20no%20single%2Fvoid)p3s(sets%20trumps)p3n(Frivolous)p?]133|200[/hv]

 

Usually partner has some 6♠322 (3 card unknown), but a 7=2=2=2 is also possible. He has around 16-17HCP.

 

- How do you rate the chance slam is on?

- Your options are to start cuebidding (LTTC available later on) or signoff. What would you do?

[the hog]

You can't ask for controls? Also you are a little high in the relay chain and don't know exact shape? Change the system to a more symmetric like structure.If I bid 4C is 4H LTTC? I guess to bid 4C followed by 5C., but I hate the system.

[whereagles]

He's high because the opening was 1♠, not a strong club. I've seen some pretty good players using this style.

 

Anyway, I rate slam as a near-certainty and I'll do the cueing now.

[MrAce]

I don't know how you can find out whether pd has

 

AQJxxxx AK xx Qx (grand is cold)

 

or

 

AQJxxx AKx xx Qx (slam is cold)

 

or

 

AQJxxx AK Qxx xx (playable)

 

or

 

AQJxxx AQ Qxx xx (bad)

 

or

 

AQJxxx KQx Kxx Jx (awful)

 

In general I like my chances though, the hands I constructed has no good spots, I am assuming with some intermediates our chances increases a lot.

[jogs]

2♣ game force relay.

 

Once you have decided to bid game no matter what pard has, you are no longer interested in his HCP. You don't care about his QJ in the side suits. You are interested in the 4 aces, 4 kings and the queen of trumps(10 trumps suffice as the queen). The 2NT bid should be his controls, single suited. That's more useful than HCP for slam auctions.

[the hog]

2♣ game force relay.

 

Once you have decided to bid game no matter what pard has, you are no longer interested in his HCP. You don't care about his QJ in the side suits. You are interested in the 4 aces, 4 kings and the queen of trumps(10 trumps suffice as the queen). The 2NT bid should be his controls, single suited. That's more useful than HCP for slam auctions.

 

"You don't care about his QJ in the side suits"

 

You certainly do

 

QJx opposite AKxxx plays a lot better than xxx opposite AKxxx

 

The whole point of a relay system is to find these cards.

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&s=sk852h765da63cak2&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1sp2c(GF%20relay)p2n(16%2B%20singlesuited)p3c(relay)p3h(6-7!s%2C%20no%20single%2Fvoid)p3s(sets%20trumps)p3n(Frivolous)p?]133|200|

 

Usually partner has some 6♠322 (3 card unknown), but a 7=2=2=2 is also possible. He has around 16-17HCP.

 

- How do you rate the chance slam is on?

 

- Your options are to start cuebidding (LTTC available later on) or signoff. What would you do? [/hv]

IMO

1. Good.
2. Cuebid 4♣, hoping that partner can launch into RKC because he should be able to judge better than you can after you've shown three keys, ♠Q, and ♣K.

[PhantomSac]

I am forcing to slam (pending heart control), it is incredibly hard to come up with very bad slams and easy to come up with cold ones. Timos example of AQJxxx KQ Kxx Jx is definitely pretty terrible.

 

Even with Timo's constructions slam is good generally, and all of his hands gave partner max spade wastage and in one case included only a 15 count, and in the others 16. Partner will sometimes not have the Q or J of spades (very good for us) and will sometimes have a 17 count like AQJxxx AQ Qxx Qx (which even on the best lead is 1 of 2 hooks and sometimes they'll lead a red suit).

[mikeh]

Sigh

 

Years ago I played a relay method where bidding this hand would be a walk in the park.

 

We generally went for shape initially, and then after shape, we could ask min-max or bypass that and go for controls, then Queens then control location, using spiral scanning. I no longer remember all the steps but I can say with confidence that a method that focuses on high card point count rather than controls looks really weak by comparison.

 

As it is, I would keep on going. He may be worried about his trumps...Axxxxx or AJxxxx won't look encouraging to him, since he has described the shape and strength for a 1♠ 3♠ rebid before we 'set trump' so we don't promise much. Qx would be ample for us to be making some move.

 

Let's tell him we are serious and then, having already cooled us down, he can become more optimistic.

I am going to force him to own up to a heart control if he has one. I am not definitely committing to slam right now, even if he shows a heart control early, but I am going to push some more.

 

I confess, however, that I am not sure as to how lttc plays into this after my 4♣.

 

Would 4♦ be lttc? or would it be 4♥?

 

I can't see how he can have no red suit control, so if he has no diamond control, his 4♥ (intentional or not) won't be lttc, since he can't not have a heart control. I mean AQJxxx QJx QJ QJ...please don't tell me he showed that as 16 hcp :P

 

Anyway, I am going to be pushing to the 5 level at least, but let me get back to you on my final action once I know what happens in the meantime.