ahydra Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 [hv=pc=n&s=skjt6hjt82d93cj97&n=saq982ha543dacak6&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=3dd4ddp5dp5sp6sppp]266|200[/hv] MPs, both sides NV. Opps are decent club players. ATB. Thanks, ahydra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wank Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 south, meet pass card. pass card, meet south. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 South of course. I am surprised N did not seek grand. Try to place 10 hcp to south w/o ♦ values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 [hv=pc=n&s=skjt6hjt82d93cj97&n=saq982ha543dacak6&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=3dd4ddp5dp5sp6sppp]266|200|Ahydra asks MPs, both sides NV. Opps are decent club players. ATB. [/hv] IMO South overbid a bit. Another interesting question is whether, when committed to a slam, there's a route to the playable 6♥ ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Both. South for overbidding on the first double and North for not trying 6H. This is the sort of hand where hearts can be much better -- give south KJTx KJxx xx Jxx where he more or less has his bid for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 south, meet pass card. pass card, meet south.Yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Contrary to Mr. Hog's position (another thread), ATB is all about resulting. Yes, South overbid, but he did show 4-4 in the Majors. So: If West has HX of hearts, then North is to Blame for not immediately realizing Hearts, not Spades should be trump..South's overbid would have gotten the "Credit" if North had chosen 6 Hearts -- a given action. If the hearts could not be picked up for one loser, then South's overbidding is to blame for being in Slam.. and North is to blame for being in the wrong strain down two instead of one. Here, North can never get the "credit", because he chose the Spade strain, but he could become blameless if the Club queen drops and both strains make the same number of tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 East. Both N/S streched a bit, but I find their bidding reasonable in context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Both. South for overbidding on the first double and North for not trying 6H. This is the sort of hand where hearts can be much better -- give south KJTx KJxx xx Jxx where he more or less has his bid for example.Did you misread the auction perhaps? For me, bidding 5♠ over 5♦ shows a real preference - with 4-4 I would almost always bid 5♥ (or 6♦), but hardly ever 5♠. Takeout double can have many shapes and we have little space - the goal of this auction should be to find our fit, not to pick the 4-4 fit with the T over the 4-4 fit without the T. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 South already showed 4-4. 5D certainly doesn't ask South whether he has 4-4. At that point it seems South was just showing his stronger one, but he shouldn't have. His choices should have been to show weakness with 5H, or full strength for his previous bidding via something other than 5H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Oh, I see. No, for me double does not show 4=4 in the majors. It would be routine with 4=3=2=4 and many other shapes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Oh, I see. No, for me double does not show 4=4 in the majors. It would be routine with 4=3=2=4 and many other shapes. That's true of course. Thinking that double showed 4-4 majors is naive imo. I guess with 4324 hands they simply bid 4♠ and hope that they hit partner's 4 card M. I am also surprised with Adam's reply for the same reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Kenberg's quote in my tagline seems to fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Kenberg's quote in my tagline seems to fit.Playing double 4-4 majors and not be able to double with other **** loads of hands, is awful imho. And by saying "awful" I am really giving you a break because I love ya Aguaman.http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuhchung Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 That's true of course. Thinking that double showed 4-4 majors is naive imo. I guess with 4324 hands they simply bid 4♠ and hope that they hit partner's 4 card M. I am also surprised with Adam's reply for the same reason. If we're willing to offer 5C as a place to play, can't we double, pull 4H to 4S, and then leave the decision up to partner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 If we're willing to offer 5C as a place to play, can't we double, pull 4H to 4S, and then leave the decision up to partner? This is exactly what I am saying, we can be 4-4 in blacks, 4-4 in majors, 4-4 in hearts+clubs. Thus bidding hearts first as Arend(cherdano) said is critical and that playing double with only 4-4 majors is disabling us from a lot of other things we can do efficiently. I am assuming you are talking about the partner of first doubler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuhchung Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Oh sorry, I misunderstood the post I quoted. You were talking about a world where contre guarantees 4-4 majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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