If Only the Jack Was The Queen!

[jogs]

 

 

ps. BBO results: 7H - 1 (us)

3N + 1

6H =

everyone else 4h + 2 :D

 

This is why I never bid 7 unless I can count all 13 tricks during the auction.

6H + 1 rates to be a good result.

[Lovera]

Chase's post is spot on.

 

Note that the response to RKCB showed two aces and the trump queen. This certainly makes it less than likely the PD holds the specific high cards needed for a grand since he has the Q of trumps. I make my grand slam try with 5NT and find out that PD has no kings and then we stop sensibly in 6♥.

Although you could find ♦ K or ♣ K..(Lovera)

[gszeszycki]

What happens if you merely bid 3h vs taking control? I realize it becomes partnership dependent now but try to avoid using a tool that will most likely not give you the information you need. You have no idea how strong/weak opener is at any time during the bidding and it is indeed unfortunate opener is near minimum. Don't beat yourself up too much but try and avoid grand slams w/o some clear idea on just how you intend to make it.

 

over 3h maybe p can show a second suit or bid 3n to show [extra (now going to 4n would seem right) values].

[rmnka447]

Sorry for the late reply, been having some connectivity problems.

 

+1 for mikeh's reply.

 

I'm also for starting with bidding 3 ♠ cue bid over the 3 ♦ shortness response to Jacoby. After opener's next bid, you'll still have time to RKC if you want. With ♦ shortness in opener's hand, you're hand looks like small slam is pretty certain and grand slam is a distinct possibility. So after opener's 3 ♦, it doesn't hurt to take some time to figure out how to get the information you need for grand or how to tell opener about your assets so opener can bid grand if it's there.

[Phil]

This isn't really that tough of a hand playing kickback and rkc with 3rd round asks, which are more or less standard between decent players. Where it might get interesting is when Opener has an overabundance of minor cards that compensate for the spade weakness.

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&w=sj85haq643d7ca983&e=sak43hkjt82da82ct&d=w&v=b&b=7&a=1hp2n(GF 4+ H)p3d(Short)p4S(KIckback)p5s(2 + Q)p6D(R3 S-control?)p6H(No)ppp]300|300| eagles123 "So this hand came up on BBO last night p and opps are all good players. Unfortunatley the spade Queen didn't fall doubleton. I think maybe I over-valued my hand but I thought we have all the keycards and my Diamond holding is pretty good so why not bid grand!!my question is, how can I/we bid this better?"

 

I like Fluffy's idea of using Kickback to provide room to ask for 3rd round ♠ control. In Scotland, over 5♥ (2 keys + Q), some partnerships use step-coded asks (the cheaper the lower ranking).

- 5♠ = ASK for specific kings.

- 5N = ASK for 3rd round ♣ control.

- 6♣ = ASK for ♦ void (Ahydra explains that shortage is known).

- 6♦ = ASK for 3rd round ♠ control.[/hv]

[MrAce]

I just saw this topic.

 

First of all, I started with ignoring all of the comments that started or included a complain about W opening. If you are not opening the W hand, you should not be wasting your time in bridge forums that are beyond B/N level.This is as nice as I can be for these comments.

As for the 3rd round control asking. It helps but it is not perfect.

Assume W holds

 

Jxx

AQxxxx

Void

Axxx

vs

 

xxxx

AQxxxx

Void

AJx

Showing the void on keycard asking can cost space. You may argue that with hand #1, Even If they had the space and E asked 3rd round of spades, W can bid 7 despite lacking 3rd round ♠ control only if he knows pd has ♦A. So ironically on that case not having showed the void can help since then W will know E has ♦A for making a grand try.

 

Showing the void can be vital if pd is lacking ♦A, but it can also be costly when opener has.

 

xxx

AQxxxx

Void

AKQx

 

Even without the void, E asking 3rd round of spades can be problematic when opener and responder holds

 

[hv=pc=n&w=s842haq862d6cak62&e=sak6hkj943da852c3]266|100[/hv]

So basically, the suggestions here other than the one by MikeH, is trying to teach you, as usual, a convention that may work fine with one hand while they miss the ocean on a boat on another hand. I know it is easier to grasp a convention that magically solves your problems in specific hands compared to the logic MikeH is trying to give. But if one wants to improve, he/she should avoid the shortcuts. In this game there are not many shortcuts for success unless you are willing to walk the path F-N and F-S did.

[Lovera]

I don't want to say that kickback solution not has to be considered but that, in this way, we can elude the starting by OP interesting problem involving RKB answeres. Than i suggest to remain there. Here we have that : W has splintered(3♦) but subsequently has answered 5♠(=2 with Q) and not 5NT, than void is it not. This answer doesn't give us King indication and/or extra too. I think that is more useful bidding 5NT (here we know that in club and diamond(=singleton) there is any king).