Support doubles/redoubles for the minors?

[movingon]

Do you play support doubles/redoubles for the minors as well as the majors? What would be the reasons to do so or not to do so?

 

Thanks!

[mikestar13]

Wouldn't think of it. Support doubles can get to a 4-3 fit at the two level--which can be OK in a major; they can also get you to a 5-3 fit if partner has extra length--obviously this is quite good in a major.

 

 

The minors are a different matter--4-3 fits a the two level are a disaster waiting to happen: opponent's won't let you play there unless it is wrong for you to play there. And it isn't as big of an advantage to find a 5-3 minor suit fit if present: so many of these hands will do better in 1NT if either you or partner can stop their suit.

 

 

For the sequence 1♣-(P)-1♦-(1♠)-X, double might better used as general competitive values with no clear direction: opener may have but doesn't promise 3 diamonds, maybe a notrumpy hand without a spade stopper.

 

Other support doubles for a minor are not useful: 1♦-(P)-2♣-(2H)-X for example, makes no sense as support--opener can raise freely on 3 clubs, responder is virtually certain to have five of them and at least game invitational values.

 

When I learned them, support doubles didn't apply even to major suits if the intervention was higher than 2 of partner's suit--but I understand that some players these days treat 1♦-(P)-1♥-(2♠)-X as a support double for hearts: I prefer penalties.

[kgr]

Yes,

We have support DBL for minors defined in our system for following sequences:

1D-(P)-2C!-(2H/S)

DBL

- 2C=Clubs or Inverted D

 

1M-(P)-2C!-(2D/H)

DBL

- 2C=Clubs or 3cM-support

 

1S-(P)-2D-(2H)

DBL

[helene_t]

If not playing walsh,

1c-p-1d-1s

Dbl

is better defined as showing hearts.

But in most other situations I think support dbls are sensible.

If undiscussed I would assume that they don't apply.

[Winstonm]

IMO it pays to think of the reasoning behind the development of the support double - because it is a trade off for a different meaning for this type of double. The main reason I understand for a support double is so a 5-3 major suit fit can be found quickly as well as differentiating a 4-card and a 3-card raise. This information is quite valuable in crowded auctions where the opponents bidding may preempt the auction or take up a lot of room.

 

This 3-4 card support is not nearly so valuable in minor suits, so there is less need to use support doubles in this fashion, although for game and slam purposes support doubles seem reasonable.

 

The question to answer is whether or not the give-up double is more or less valuable than the support double. That is something you answer for yourself, IMO.

[Cthulhu D]

I think it depends on your methods as well, playing 1D is 4+ unbalanced (so basically 5 always), it can be really useful to know if it's a 3 or 4 card raise to tell you if it's right to bid 3D to compete for the part score, assuming that a major showing double isn't required. Similarly, playing an overcall method that allows you to show secondary 4 card suits fairly reliably, support doubles after a an auction like (1C)-1D-(1S) are really useful because partner doesn't have 4H otherwise he would have overcalled 2D.

 

Playing 1C as Clubs or balanced, support doubles are pretty much useless.

[mike777]

Do you play support doubles/redoubles for the minors as well as the majors? What would be the reasons to do so or not to do so?

 

Thanks!

 

yes

 

KISS

 

 

1c=p=1d=(x or 1h or 1s)

xx

 

note in walsh 1d denies a major unless responder is gf and 54 so rare

As such much more important to show 3 card support

 

 

I don't think you lose much on this auction.

 

What is your concern?

[fromageGB]

As always, it depends on your methods. In mine, we do not have a natural responder's simple other minor bid after our 1♣ or 1♦ open, and after a major open, our simple minor responses are GF (or 2♣ possibly artificial) anyway, so the concept cannot apply after our open.

 

If our first bid was an overcall, then advancer's double would be a transfer, so the concept does not apply here either.

[whereagles]

I disagree with supp dbl for majors, let alone minors. LOL