New suit or support?

[mcphee]

It is clearly best to raise H and show what you have. Maybe partner can make a game try, bid game, splinter, who knows, but partners like it when you raise,

[gszes]

It is indeed possible for spades to be a better contract than hearts and there

are other times where we would always want to bid spades before hearts for possible

slam purposes (AKQxx Axxx xx xx). The problem (pointed out above) is that there are

far too many follow up sequences where your heart support becomes "muddled" and the

result will be far too may missed game opportunities because opener cannot tell the

difference between a simple preference Kxxx xx Kxxxx xx and the hand shown. 1h 1s 2c 2h.

[Winstonm]

Don't feel alone. I would also bid 1♠, followed by 3♥. 3 hearts with a singleton opposite a known 5 card heart suit makes many tricks.

 

Your opponents never lead trumps?

[ggwhiz]

One of the arguments for 2♥ is to find a safe spot early and 1♠ to get to the best game.

 

I'm a 1♠ bidder followed by a heart bid which may indeed only be a preference but if partner sneezes over that I'm bidding the right game, get to clarify the heart support should they compete up to 3♦ and get the right opening lead if they go any further.

 

If partner passes my 2♥ "preference" we are in the same safe spot.

[mgoetze]

Apologies accepted, no hard feelings. By the way, I usually post under "interesting bridge hands" because I don't quite understand the current forum structure. Perhaps the hand would be better off in intermediate/advnatural bidding discussion.

Yes.

[kenrexford]

I don't understand the comments about a 1♠ bid being the best bid to get to the best game. This assumes an idiot for a partner.

 

If your style is to raise hearts with 5♠/3♥, then won't partner know this? If partner has, say, 4♠/5♥, is he incapable of introducing spades simply because you have a heart fit?

 

I have numerous auctions that go like this:

 

1♥-P-2♥-P-

 

2♠-P-4♠

 

Or, something like that. What is so tricky about that?

 

If the thought is to get to the best partscore, that might be a different matter. 2♠ or 3♠ might be better than 2♥ or 3♥. However, when you have an 8-fit in hearts and a 9-fit in spades (when it matters), the opponents have a whole lot of minor cards and usually bid something exotic. If you manage to get past RHO, LHO is often lurking. 1♥-P-2♥-2NT is a lot easier to handle than 1♥-P-1♠-2NT, especially when there is no actual spade fit, Still, the issue cannot logically be "best game," but it might be "best partscore."

 

 

 

[aguahombre]

I don't understand the comments about a 1♠ bid being the best bid to get to the best game. This assumes an idiot for a partner.

Yes. And, your point is?

[kenrexford]

Yes. And, your point is?

Fair point. And, if the assumption is fairly reliable, 1S has the advantage of right siding the contract!

[Vampyr]

But idd, this hand is more interesting if you play four card majors. Anyway, it illustrates an important principle.

 

Too bad the OP did not give us any information about the system being played. Since one of the options was 1NT, with apparently no expectation of getting the dummy, 1NT seems to be forcing. Does this show spades, are single raises constructive, are major openings 5 cards? I suppose we are meant to guess.

[whereagles]

System is default: 5 card majors.

 

The 1NT option probably shouldn't be there, but doesn't matter because no one chose it :)

 

By the way, for all its worth, I have no special preference for a bid. 1♠ strikes gold if pard has 4 spades, whereas 2♥ might help of opps butt-in (although the hand can probably take the push to the 3 level if you bid spades first).

[Vampyr]

System is default: 5 card majors.

 

Default where you live, I guess, but not everyone lives there.

[nige1]

System is default: 5 card majors.

Default where you live, I guess, but not everyone lives there.

Should this poll be in interesting bridge hands? or natural bidding? or even non-natural bidding if the default system is 2/1? :)

[Vampyr]

Should this poll be in interesting bridge hands? or natural bidding? or even in non-natural bidding if the default system is 2/1? :)

 

Actually, I have been wondering (seriously) whether one of the new forums should be called "2/1GF bidding".

[the hog]

I will support. If pd bids 2m a 2H bid will sound like simple preference rather than real support.

[helene_t]

Too bad the OP did not give us any information about the system being played. Since one of the options was 1NT, with apparently no expectation of getting the dummy, 1NT seems to be forcing. Does this show spades, are single raises constructive, are major openings 5 cards? I suppose we are meant to guess.

It is probably fair to assume some kind of wide-ranging 5cM, 1nt=15-17, if nothing else is stated. But yes it is relevant here how the single raise is played. I don't think it matters whether 1NT is forcing or not since the choice is between 1♠ and 2♥. We would have been told if we were playing Flannery, by the way.

[Trinidad]

Default where you live, I guess, but not everyone lives there.

I wasn't aware that we had extraterrestrial forum members. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

;)

 

Rik

[aguahombre]

Good grief!! The guy was asked for a system context. And he said that his OP was within a plain old 5-card major system; using the word "default" is even sort of accurate here in the BBF. Unless someone states Acol, 2/1, Big Club, or somesuch I always assume something like a vanilla 5cM to be the "default" here such as SA or French standard.

[whereagles]

By the way, if you're curious about it, here are the hands:

 

Kxx

KQJxx

xxx

Ax

 

AT98x

Txx

x

QJxx

Game is actually pretty ok, but I think the only way to reach it might be

1♥ 1NT (kaplan inversion, 5+ spades)

2♠ 3♥ (not 100% clear this shows a dbl fit, but it's encouraging in any case)

4♥/♠

 

But fear not: hearts broke 4-1, so most people ended up with only 9 tricks http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif

[MrAce]

But fear not: hearts broke 4-1, so most people ended up with only 9 tricks http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif

 

Oh yea, we would be cold if hearts were 3-2! Which suit are you planning to touch, after a trump lead, which you were allowed to hold at T1? (playing 4♥)

 

-If you play a diamond, they simply play 2 more rounds of hearts and cash 2 diamonds when they get in with spades

-If you continue trumps same thing happens

-If you continue spades and try to establish spade suit first, then they will get a spade ruff.

-Do you wanna get the big bonus by letting us know what may happen if you play on clubs?http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif

 

Playing 4♠ you will need ♣K to be on most of the time. Which reduces your chances % 50 of the time even when both majors split friendly.

See... you and I frequently see different things when we both look at same things and I bet you thought it was a well bid but an unlucky game contract, didn't you?http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif

[whereagles]

Well, if you're playing 2♥ it doesn't matter much. If you're playing 4♥, it will probably be after a double fit auction, so a trump lead is unlikely. But ok this is all a bit academic.

 

Club hook was on, by the way.

[nige1]

System is default: 5 card majors.

Default where you live, I guess, but not everyone lives there.

I wasn't aware that we had extraterrestrial forum members. Thanks for pointing that out.

Good grief!! The guy was asked for a system context. And he said that his OP was within a plain old 5-card major system; using the word "default" is even sort of accurate here in the BBF. Unless someone states Acol, 2/1, Big Club, or somesuch I always assume something like a vanilla 5cM to be the "default" here such as SA or French standard.

Many extra-terrestrials employ simple natural methods with 4-card majors. The OP waited until reply #35 to divulge to us that 1♥ promised 5+ cards :)

[aguahombre]

Many extra-terrestrials employ simple natural methods with 4-card majors. The OP waited until reply #35 to divulge to us that 1♥ promised 5+ cards :)

So, now I know that your responses and "ratings" of the answers provided by others are based on a 4-card major system, unless otherwise stated by the OP. I sometimes wondered what they were based on.

 

I personally have no experience with such style after all these years, and have no opinion about its effectiveness. But, it certainly explains some of the responses I don't understand on BBF.

 

Perhaps Bridge World Standard's default should be changed accordingly, as well as the version of SA in the ACBL Bulletin "It's your Call".

[Vampyr]

Perhaps Bridge World Standard's default should be changed accordingly, as well as the version of SA in the ACBL Bulletin "It's your Call".

 

I don't know about the ACBL version of SA, but BW Standard is decided by votes. Anyway if no members/subscribers are complaining, why change?

 

The general point here, anyway, is that unlike in the OP's case, these systems are made known to problem-solvers before the problem is presented.

[the hog]

Don't feel alone. I would also bid 1♠, followed by 3♥. 3 hearts with a singleton opposite a known 5 card heart suit makes many tricks. These two bids describes the hand. Don't like the use of the term 'invitation'. I'll describe my hand. Pard should make the best bid possible with that info.

 

Jogs, where is the hand you were describing when you bid this way? It certainly was not the original hand posted by Whereagles.

[Trinidad]

Many extra-terrestrials employ simple natural methods with 4-card majors.

Yes, I understand that now. And who knows, perhaps Acol is the universal bidding system, just like French perhaps is the universal language.

 

(Or might it be that you need to be British to believe that Acol can be a default bidding system in the world and French to believe that French is the world language?)

 

The OP waited until reply #35 to divulge to us that 1♥ promised 5+ cards :)

 

You can see next to post #1 that the OP lives in Portugal. In Portugal they don't have the peculiarities that this group of islands surrounded by the North Sea and Atlantic Ocean have. Therefore, in Portugal, they drive on the right side of the road and play 5 card majors.

 

Rik