whereagles Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Matchpoints[hv=pc=n&s=sat986ht65d9cqj42&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1hp]133|200[/hv] Simple question here. Do you support or bid spades first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cthulhu D Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Tell partner about the fit, then take it from there. This is both my agreement with partner, and not in the least because 1NT would be inv(-) NF with 5 spades and I could drown the heart fit starting with 1S (0-4 spades F1) would just be bananas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 This is a very interesting bridge hand 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmnka447 Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Support first with a 2 ♥ bid. Yeah, you might miss a ♠ fit. But, it avoids a problem if LHO (West) finds a 3 of a minor bid. If it's passed back to you, now what do you do? Either 3 ♥ or pass might be right or wrong. And if you bid 3 ♥, partner might play you for a bit more than you have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 This is a very interesting bridge hand http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diana_eva Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 I would bid 1♠ and support later. I don't see why support first, sorry (and I really mean I don't get it, I'm missing something). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wank Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 I would bid 1♠ and support later. I don't see why support first, sorry (and I really mean I don't get it, I'm missing something). well you could jump to 3h on the next round, but some might consider that a bit of a stretch on a 7 count, even a very good one like this, especially as some play it as forcing. 2h on the next round isn't 'support', it's preference. that would be a loathsome sequence on this hand. you would be showing a bag of crap like kxxx xx xx qjxxx, when your hand is about 3 tricks better. bidding spades also won't help partner judge. you have a holding which actually plays very well opposite shortage, whereas partner will be valuing fitting minor honours. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 I would bid 1♠ and support later. I don't see why support first, sorry (and I really mean I don't get it, I'm missing something).What are you showing with your delayed support? Although close, I don't believe this one quite comes up to invitational strength, so if we start with 1S: --pard rebids 1NT?...2H might show a constructive 3-card bump based on Spades for you. For us, it shows something else.--pard rebids 2d?...2H is a mere 2-card preference. --pard jump shifts, bids 2NT, or 3H?...you can't recover to show you actually had a good constructive 2H bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted October 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 This is a very interesting bridge hand Sorry to waste your time. Perhaps I shouldn't be wasting mine in an otherwise dead forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinidad Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 I would bid 1♠ and support later. I don't see why support first, sorry (and I really mean I don't get it, I'm missing something).The problem is that you cannot support later. If you rebid 2♥ that is not support, it is merely preference over partner's other suit, and it shows only a doubleton (on weird hands it might even be a singleton).If you rebid 3♥ that is support, but it shows invitational values and you don't have those. I once was playing against two aspiring intermediate players. On the first board, I had an 8 point 4324 hand and partner opened 1♥, which I raised to 2♥, making me dummy in 2♥. One of my opponents asked me why I didn't bid 1♠, since playing in a 4-4 fit could be better than playing in a 5-3 fit. I told him that a 4-4 fit often plays better than a 5-3 fit at the game level, but that with 8 HCPs the priority was at finding a good landing spot. If partner had extra values and 4 spades, we would still be able to reach 4 spades. On the next deal, I opened 1♥ and partner raised to 2♥. Since I had extra values and 4 spades, I invited game by bidding 2♠ and partner jumped to 4♥. Before LHO led, I tried to be helpful to them and explained: "Here you see how one could still land in a 4-4 fit in spades. Even though I did not 100% promise four spades, partner certainly would have bid 3♠ if he had four of them to make me chose between 4♥ and 4♠." Then LHO made his opening lead and partner put down a hand very similar to that of the OP: three hearts and five spades... Rik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickRW Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Sorry to waste your time. Perhaps I shouldn't be wasting mine in an otherwise dead forum. Uh. Relax. Justin likes his fun. But clearly it was an interesting hand for you at least. I voted to raise. P.S. It gets a little more interesting if you're playing 4 card majors, especially if p is not very happy in moysians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Sorry to waste your time. Perhaps I shouldn't be wasting mine in an otherwise dead forum. Promises...promises... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 [hv=pc=n&s=sat986ht65d9cqj42&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1hp]133|200|MatchpointsSimple question here. Do you support or bid spades first?[/hv]1♠ if you're playing a simple natural system but assuming a 5-card major system like 2/1 then, IMO, 2♥ = 10, 1♠ = 9, for the reasons argued by wank. e.g. there is a better argument for a 1♠ response with ♠ K J x x x ♥ Q J x ♦ x ♣ x x x.I find polls more interesting when they identify who voted for what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Sorry to waste your time. Perhaps I shouldn't be wasting mine in an otherwise dead forum. Sry for my post, was pretty rude for no reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted October 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Apologies accepted, no hard feelings. By the way, I usually post under "interesting bridge hands" because I don't quite understand the current forum structure. Perhaps the hand would be better off in intermediate/adv discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 I would support immediately. The heart raise meets every criteria for the bid, while bidding spades first and then bidding hearts disguises the fact that you have real support. It is more likely that you will be able to show your hand after raising immediately than if you bid 1♠ first. But bidding 1♠ first is a big winner when partner has both majors. I don't understand bidding 1NT on these cards [no Kaplan inversion]. Many years ago, a partner of mine responded 1NT to my 1♥ opening holding SIX spades. I didn't understand it then, and I don't understand it now. Maybe in another 35 years I will understand it, but I doubt it. Quite frankly, this is an interesting hand. But it is the type of interesting hand that we see over and over again, and everyone has already decided how they want to handle this situation. I doubt that this discussion is going to change anyone's mind. It is sort of like trying to decide whether to slow play pocket aces in hold 'em. Sometimes it is right to raise immediately, and sometimes it is right to slow play them (and sometimes it is right to fold them, but I would certainly never do that). I can't remember the last time I slow played them, as it always seems to get me into trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jogs Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 I would bid 1♠ and support later. I don't see why support first, sorry (and I really mean I don't get it, I'm missing something). Don't feel alone. I would also bid 1♠, followed by 3♥. 3 hearts with a singleton opposite a known 5 card heart suit makes many tricks. These two bids describes the hand. Don't like the use of the term 'invitation'. I'll describe my hand. Pard should make the best bid possible with that info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Don't like the use of the term 'invitation'.And I don't like the use of the term "4♥ down 2." But that is what happens when you issue an invitation (sorry about the use of that term) when you don't have one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnu Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Playing Blue Team Club which is 4 card majors and canape, I would respond 1♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Playing Blue Team Club which is 4 card majors and canape, I would respond 1♠.Talk about a hijack. OK - following up on the hijack. Playing Blue Team Club, why wouldn't you pass? Are you concerned that partner might have a strong Canape into a black suit? Or (and this is a reason for passing), wouldn't you be concerned that partner has a strong Canape into diamonds? Or, more likely and even worse, a weak Canape into diamonds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 I voted for 1♠ initially, but the arguments for 1♥ persuaded me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnu Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Talk about a hijack. OK - following up on the hijack. Playing Blue Team Club, why wouldn't you pass? Are you concerned that partner might have a strong Canape into a black suit? Or (and this is a reason for passing), wouldn't you be concerned that partner has a strong Canape into diamonds? Or, more likely and even worse, a weak Canape into diamonds? Well, the original problem did not specify what system they were playing, so it could be 4 or 5 card majors. I have found that to have been important information on at least 1 other occasion. Of course, playing BTC, opener could have a 5, 6, or longer heart suit and up to 16 HCP, so game in hearts is a possibility. And if opener had a reverse into spades or clubs, you would miss game by passing. If this is a partscore hand, you make it easier for opponents to balance, plus partner would never expect you to pass with a solid responding hand and may misjudge the auction later. Other than that, pass would be at the top of my list. As far as your worst case 2♦ rebid goes, you have an easy 2♥ bid and can play a Moysian fit if partner only has 4 hearts. Maybe this won't be an optimal contract but that happens when playing 4 card majors and canape. I also play reverse Flannery, so partner will usualy raise to 2♠ holding 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickRW Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Continuing the BTC thread hijack, one normally responds with 8+ and passes with less (and lets not get into further discussion of whether that is a good strategy or not). However, this 7 count has an ace, the clubs honours are working together, plenty of good spot cards and at least a partial fit for hearts (and BTC is only a "possible" canapé system, more often than not the suit opened is actually partner's best suit). So I would respond rather than pass. And, in that system, 1♠ leaves partner the most room, rather than rush into the possible moysian. In Acol you would definitely respond but similar arguments apply to what to respond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Apologies accepted, no hard feelings. By the way, I usually post under "interesting bridge hands" because I don't quite understand the current forum structure. Perhaps the hand would be better off in intermediate/adv discussion.One of my all-time favorites was Echognome's question about the proposal to merge "interesting bridge hands" with "expert/advanced": Where can experts post uninteresting hands? :) But idd, this hand is more interesting if you play four card majors. Anyway, it illustrates an important principle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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