Oops

[eagles123]

[hv=pc=n&w=s7hqj2djt86cakj94&e=sak532h43dk93c652&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=1c1h1s2hppdppp]266|200[/hv]

 

Imps on BBO partner is advanced opps are randoms

 

disaster when 2HX =

 

I think I'm to blame on this but just checking really

[manudude03]

The auction is obvious up to and including the double. West has a slightly awkward call, but I don't like the practice of passing out partner's partscore doubles to squeak it one off, so I think I'd bid 3C with the west hand (2NT also reasonable). I guess it's also kind of unlucky that there aren't 6 tricks here.

[MrAce]

 

I think I'm to blame on this but just checking really

 

If you were W, then yes http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif

[Cyberyeti]

Don't object to this at MPs, but at IMPs is just too dangerous to pass it out as W.

[MrAce]

How can one blame E anyway? It is perfectly normal double with prime hcps. If the argument is E should have more, which I strongly disagree btw, put ♣Q to E hand, I doubt the score would change.

 

When E doubles, he is expressing shortness in ♥ suit, which then W knows opponents have 8-9 card fit and at 2 level. You don't need to ask this to forums. We all gamble now and then, perhaps W wanted some action/adventure. All he needs to say is "Sorry pd" Saying this makes him get credit for being aware of his mistake. Because if W thinks E is at fault, this is bad because then E has a lot of work to do with this pd.

[whereagles]

Think W should pull. Opps are at their right level and you have no trump stack. Plus, East could easily have a singleton heart.

[the hog]

West should open 1D to facilitate an easy rebid. However that is not the issue here. Regardless, passing the double is the height of absurdity. To even suggest that this is a possibility at MPs is also laughable. West 100 percent.If West does open 1C, he now has a 2NT bid asking East to pick a minor.

[Cyberyeti]

West should open 1D to facilitate an easy rebid. However that is not the issue here. Regardless, passing the double is the height of absurdity. To even suggest that this is a possibility at MPs is also laughable. West 100 percent.If West does open 1C, he now has a 2NT bid asking East to pick a minor.

 

I'd suggest 200 at MPs is about as likely as -670, partner doesn't have to have 3 clubs for example, and even as is, 6 tricks (2 clubs, 1 diamond (on a really good day 2), 2 spades and a heart) are by no means impossible. Unthinkable at IMPs, but not completely ridiculous at MPs.

 

Opening 1♦ on this type of hand outside of a strong club is also very much an American thing, very few Acol playing Brits would ever consider it. There is no rebid problem, 1♣-1M-2♣ doesn't show 6 to us.

 

As we play, I could double 2♥ to show 4♦/5♣ and not promise any extra values, but not sure whether I'd bother with only one spade.

[ggwhiz]

There are a lot of hands where passing the double is right.

 

This is not one of them or even close.

[wanoff]

We don't know the strength of 1nt. If weak I'd have raised clubs so we don't get the problem.

As for the pass of 2♥X - not at imp.

[eagles123]

Hmm ok I was east. Thought my x was a bit pushy

[MrAce]

Hmm ok I was east. Thought my x was a bit pushy

 

You have 10 hcp.

All prime.

Pd opened

They bid and raised

You have support for all other suits

You are at 2 level.

Pd knows you have 5 spades, and spades outrank hearts and 5-2 contract at 2 level is just fine.

You are in pass out seat.

 

Considering all of this, not doubling would be EXTREMELY odd action with E hand, imho.

[MrAce]

West should open 1D to facilitate an easy rebid

 

I have a flexible approach when it comes to this. Yes I know this was debated a lot of times in forums and everyone has their own idea about it. With the OP hand I have no problem opening 1♣ and rebidding 2♣ over 1♠. But make my diamonds AKJx and clubs Kxxxx I prefer opening 1♦. Pd will never know which minor is longer. For example the OP hand, will responder know not to correct to 3♦ and pass 3♣? If so what would happen if opener had 5♦+4♣?

I think opening 1♦ regardless of suit quality with 4-5 minors increases the chances of playing 4-3 fits when 5-3 was available. Alternatives have flaws as well. Opening always 1♣ requires either rebidding 1 NT with an unbalanced hand or rebidding a 5 card weak suit.

As responder, when my pd opens 1♦ and rebid 2♣, I almost always correct it to 3♦ with 3-3 minors. Only time when it is right to leave it in clubs is when opener has 4-5, as oppose to 5-4 6-4 7-4. However, if I responded very light and I do not want another bid from my pd (Qxxxx xx Jxx Jxx) I may choose to pass 2♣

[mikeh]

 

 

Opening 1♦ on this type of hand outside of a strong club is also very much an American thing, very few Acol playing Brits would ever consider it. There is no rebid problem, 1♣-1M-2♣ doesn't show 6 to us.

 

 

No it is not. It is a very weird non-bridge view. A substantial school advocates 1♦ on many 4-5 shapes, tho I think that is a minority view these days, but almost none would with this suit discrepancy.

[neilkaz]

FYP

 

Imps on BBO partner says that they are advanced.

 

PD should not pass especially at IMPs and should just bid 3♣ .

[aguahombre]

Again, who cares whether the partnership would open 1d or 1C with this? If they open 1C, they pull to 2nt (pick a minor). If they open 1D, they pull the double to 3C...and life goes on.

 

This is an OBAR auction, so we aren't playing in 2NT ever, and we aren't sitting 2HX more than maybe .0001 of the time.

[rmnka447]

The opponents have shown an 8 card fit. East's 1 ♠ doesn't necessarily show more than a minimum response but should show 5 ♠. East is in reopening position.

 

East really needs a bid to suggest competing further. So the double, in this case, has to be value showing -- a balance of power double. It suggests that your side has the majority of the points and that East has a willingness to compete with no clear cut action.

 

At MPs, West may risk leaving in a close double to try for the magic part score result of +200. But at IMPS, unless West is absolutely sure that 2 ♥ is going down, West must make a bid. Even then, West probably should recheck how certain setting the contract is before sitting for 2 ♥x.

 

Here, West is looking at a probable trump trick and possibly 2 ♣ tricks. So, it looks like East will have to come up with 3 tricks to beat 2 ♥. Given the actual bidding, that seems like a rather tall order.

 

The choice then is between 2 NT and 3 ♣. I think 3 ♣ is preferable because only a single ♥ stopper is held. With the overcall and raise, it looks like the opponents can duck a ♥ trick and set up at least 4 more fast cashing ♥ tricks. East/West would have to score 7 additional tricks before the opponents score 2 tricks outside of ♥ in order to make.

[aguahombre]

The choice then is between 2 NT and 3 ♣. I think 3 ♣ is preferable because only a single ♥ stopper is held. With the overcall and raise, it looks like the opponents can duck a ♥ trick and set up at least 4 more fast cashing ♥ tricks. East/West would have to score 7 additional tricks before the opponents score 2 tricks outside of ♥ in order to make.

I don't think anyone suggested 2nt was to play. It is to find the 4-4 diamond fit instead of the 5-2 club fit.

[akwoo]

West is to blame under modern understandings, but half the players at my local club would not understand East's double correctly. Many still operate under the delusion that letting opps make 2♥ (even doubled) is better than risking a 50% chance of going down in your own contract. After all, going down is MY FAULT, and opponents making is just bad cards.

 

Sadly, I wouldn't expect a random BBO self-rated as 'Advanced' to understand East's double correctly.

[mcphee]

This hand result is all on west. He passed because he was was not listening and seeing that he for sure had an 8 card fit in ONE of the minors, which minor it is does not matter. Either may well reduce defensive tricks. In order to score 2 trumps ruffing he will need partner to have both pointed aces, if not he is back to the 1 trump trick he started with, this is optimistic in my view.

 

I am not a fan of opening the bidding 1D, maybe if I held AKQJ and 5C to the 7 it would make more sense. If in fact that took place on this hand rather than end up playing in 3C you end up in 3D with perhaps a less than happy outcome.

[StevenG]

Ok, may I ask?

 

Partner has opened and I have 10 points. Partner couldn't find a bid after the interference, so is weak. So it looks like the points split is something like 22-18 and we don't have much of a fit anywhere. They have at least 8 trumps, we have at most 8, possibly 7. I'm no great fan of the LoTT, but it seems to me that if they're making 2♥, we're unlikely to be making anything at the 3 level, so -110 is roughly par. If they're not, +100 is comparable to what we might get declaring, and +200 is a lot better.

 

Double might come off if partner has a second spade, but otherwise I fail to see its purpose.

[manudude03]

Why does partner have to be weak?. He might have some 1345 16 count and have no bid over 2H- take the actual West hand and give him the ace of diamonds (especially if double shows spade support). Now by passing, you are letting them play in 2H when you have 26 HCP combined. Now to mention the not-remote possibility that 2H can make, and you can make something. Also, if you open 1♦ with 4-4 in the minors, then East knows there is an 8 card fit.

[helene_t]

W doesn't even need to know if 2NT is scrambling or natural or even lebensohl since his hand would fit in any case.

[Cyberyeti]

Ok, may I ask?

 

Partner has opened and I have 10 points. Partner couldn't find a bid after the interference, so is weak. So it looks like the points split is something like 22-18 and we don't have much of a fit anywhere. They have at least 8 trumps, we have at most 8, possibly 7. I'm no great fan of the LoTT, but it seems to me that if they're making 2♥, we're unlikely to be making anything at the 3 level, so -110 is roughly par. If they're not, +100 is comparable to what we might get declaring, and +200 is a lot better.

 

Double might come off if partner has a second spade, but otherwise I fail to see its purpose.

 

Not sure what NT OP is playing (I believe normally weak but not sure online), but if playing a weak one, you can pretty much guarantee at least 5 clubs and an unbalanced hand so very probably one spade.

 

Manudude also makes some very valid points.

 

Is partner expected to bid 3♣ over 2♥ with x, Qx, QJxx, KQJxxx btw where 3♣ and 2♥ both can easily make.

[Wackojack]

IMO West has a very tough decision. Assuming E-W are playing weak no trump then East can infer that west is unbalanced and likely has a 3 card heart suit. Thus likely 1345 and a min opener. What can West infer? East is 5233 or 5242 for the take-out double? Or have NS got a 9 card fit and so 5143? If 2♥is a make as is quite possible, then a making 3 level 8 card fit is unlikely. As west I would therefore go for 2N which I expect partner to take as natural, but if he pulls it to 3♣ I wont be upset.