Jinksy Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 [hv=pc=n&w=skjt652hkqd72cj96]133|100[/hv] (ETA) rats, I forgot to include vulnerability - it's unfavourable a) Playing a standard system (SAYC for argument's sake), do you open this 1♠, 2♠ or pass? b) Playing Fantunes, do you open 2♠ or pass? To give some context to the latter, our Fantunes 2-bid is '10-13 points after allowing for distribution, with 5+ cards in the suit, but promising a singleton outside if only 5'. So I find a better way to think about it is maybe 'about a point less than a minimum SAYC distribution-based opening bid'. Obviously NV you might take some liberties, but 1st in, vul, we try to keep them constructive. Somehow this hand feels on the cusp of both a Fantunes and weak 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Any reason why I should evade the system? Seems like normal 2♠ in normal and fantunes... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy Posted October 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 For me it's both. At the table, opening 2S got a disastrous result, and while I realise that's mainly bad luck, I think it's such a poor 10 count that conceivably passing it (playing Fantunes) could be the winning action at these colours. I don't normally loser count, but this is one of the only Fantunes 2-bids I can remember that had 8, and the KQH and JC look ridiculously overrated on Milton-Work. P will be punting game on most reasonably crisp 10 counts with 4♠s - he's also likely to compete heavily over Hs with reasonable ♠s, which might work badly. I'm not talking myself into not bidding it, but was uncertain enough to bring it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 For me we would open 1♠ playing what I play (Acol rather than SAYC), 2♠ in Fantunes, if you pass in Fantunes, partner will have Q9xx, J10xx, AKxx, x. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy Posted October 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 For me we would open 1♠ playing what I play (Acol rather than SAYC), 2♠ in Fantunes, if you pass in Fantunes, partner will have Q9xx, J10xx, AKxx, x. Maybe, but if P has that hand, the opps are likely to bid Cs, giving P a chance to X or you a chance to overcall. They'll prob find a sac, but they might have done that anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy Posted October 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Just noticed the vul came out wrong in the OP. It's unfavourable - any other colours I'd think it clear cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Maybe, but if P has that hand, the opps are likely to bid Cs, giving P a chance to X or you a chance to overcall. They'll prob find a sac, but they might have done that anyway. Fine if anybody bids at all, 4x10 not out of the question here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 IMO there is no such thing as an in-between. If suit quality and pattern are appropriate for 2♠, then always open either 2♠ or 1♠, depending on overall strength, but never pass. It's a bidders game, if you have a bid, then bid. edit: just now seeing that it is unfavorable. Now the suit is close to not good enough. But I still bid 2♠. Never played Fantunes, but given your description the hand seems better suited to 1♠. edit again: I misread that entirely, lol. 2♠ always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy Posted October 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 In Fantunes 1♠ would show a much stronger hand. The choices are 2♠ or pass (or 3♠, I suppose). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy Posted October 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Fine if anybody bids at all, 4x10 not out of the question here. Sure, but I'm just saying it reduces the weight of that hand as evidence for opening 2♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 lol at me. Make it 2♠ always. Morings are rough on me, have pity http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Is everyone who has replied so far playing a Multi and constructive opening two-bids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasetb Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 Vampyr, I can't play Multi (stupid Mid-Chart and no partners who are willing to play MC), and I think it's clearly a 2♠ in both systems. It has 3/top 5 in Spades, a maximum in point count, and not really too much defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeegan Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 This is first seat red vs white? Seems like a normal 2♠ opener in all but 4th seat playing SAYC or 2/1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I think it's clearly a 2♠ in both systems. You may be right. In Acol-style systems, it is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 [hv=pc=n&w=skjt652hkqd72cj96&d=w&v=e&a=?]100|200|unfavourablea) Playing a standard system (SAYC for argument's sake), do you open this 1♠, 2♠ or pass?b) Playing Fantunes, do you open 2♠ or pass?To give some context to the latter, our Fantunes 2-bid is '10-13 points after allowing for distribution, with 5+ cards in the suit, but promising a singleton outside if only 5'. So I find a better way to think about it is maybe 'about a point less than a minimum SAYC distribution-based opening bid'. Obviously NV you might take some liberties, but 1st in, vul, we try to keep them constructive. Somehow this hand feels on the cusp of both a Fantunes and weak 2.[/hv] IMO 2♠ is OK, playing either system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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