gwnn Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 [hv=pc=n&s=sajhat6432daktcaj&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=1c(Polish club)1d(dreaded%20interference)p(nothing%20special%20to%20say)p?]133|200[/hv] two-part question:-what would you do if you have no special agreements?-what would you do in your own sci-fi 21st-century killer Polish variant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) [hv=pc=n&s=sajhat6432daktcaj&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=1c(Polish club)1d(dreaded%20interference)p(nothing%20special%20to%20say)p?]133|200|two-part question:-what would you do if you have no special agreements?-what would you do in your own sci-fi 21st-century killer Polish variant? [/hv] IMO 2N = 10, 2♦ = 9, Double = 8. 2♥ = 7, 3N = 6 1N = 5. (3N is playable opposite a bal Yarborough xxxx xxx xxx xxx).Double = 10, 2N = 9, 2♥ (forcing) = 8, 3N = 7, 2♦ = 6. 1N = 5. (Strong protective doubles are often "off-shape").Edited to award marks to 1N Edited October 20, 2014 by nige1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 In my pet version of polish club, I bid 2♥ on this. Shows something like a strong 2 in hearts. Ok the suit should be better, but this will have to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 2♥ showing the strong ♥ version. The other alternative is 1NT but I don't like that. All other bids are from coocoo-land! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonylee Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 2H, what else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 2♥. Agree with Frederick that everything else is silly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnu Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 -what would you do if you have no special agreements? Do you use "standard" agreements? If the answer is no, I abstain and refuse to play this system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted October 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 Do you use "standard" agreements? If the answer is no, I abstain and refuse to play this system.Well, 1H/S would be at least 15+, 1NT is 18-20, 2NT is 21-23, 2D is unclear (I guess it should be GF? but no agreement), double is takeout with a strong hand. I don't know if this is standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 Do you use "standard" agreements? If the answer is no, I abstain and refuse to play this system. "Standard" agreements here means, I suppose, "common sense" or "undiscussed bids are natural". In which case 2♥ fits the purpose as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 Well, 1H/S would be at least 15+, 1NT is 18-20, 2NT is 21-23, 2D is unclear (I guess it should be GF? but no agreement), double is takeout with a strong hand. I don't know if this is standard. 2D would be natural, strong. This is to stop psyches where they end up playing in your suit undoubled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted October 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 2♦ as natural, interesting, thanks! I did indeed bid 2♥ but we missed a game that everyone else bid, when partner held: xxxQxxxxxKxxx (LHO held all the relevant points and only 4 diamonds). Was partner worth a 3♥ bid? Matchpoints (I think I forgot to mention this before!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 Everything should be the same as after 1♣-p-1♦-p, so presumably 2♦ is an artificial game-force and 2♥ is strong but non-forcing. If you do bid 2♥ I think partner has a clear 3♥ bid. ♥Q and ♣K are quite likely to be worth two tricks and two entries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted October 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 We said 1♣-1♦2♥ shows an Acol two with 8-8.5 tricks and a decent suit. I have no idea how many tricks this is, but presumably right around there (counting the hearts as 4?? and adding a bit for the two jacks and our pessimism in the heart suit) - but of course it would typically be based on better hearts and less high cards. I guess it does make sense to treat it as just 1C-1D; ?? but Mr Hog also has a point. Thanks everyone for participating. It is always nice to see that I am right and my partner mucked up. Just kidding + it wasn't such an awesome game anyway on the auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 I really don't see how you could have drove to 3-level on a moth-eaten suit. If 2♥ always shows 6 cards, then I think pard should have done something. Otherwise (i.e. if it shows just 5) it's hard to blame him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 I might be being a bit thick, but shouldn't 1♥ be pretty strong in this auction? Not saying I would do it on this hand, obviously, but it affect what the baseline for 2♥ should be. Not sure it shows this hand though, since the hand is shrieking no trumps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 I might bid 1♥ on some 2425 17-count and obviously also with an 18-count with five hearts. Could partner have a 3334 9-count without a diamond stop? In that case I would also bid 1♥ with a 1435 16-count. If 2♦ is natural (I didn't think of that, but it makes sense) then 2♥ is forcing. I think this hand may just be worth a forcing 2♥ bid but it's borderline. Without agreements I think I would bid 1♥. 2♥ can't be wrong but I wouldn't know if partner takes it as forcing or not. 2NT would not be unreasonable either. In my own sci-fi system I still bid 1♥. If you bid 2♥ there is no way partner is stopping below game with such a nice hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted October 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 Why can't I just have x AJxx Kxx AKxxx for 1♥? Well maybe it's a bad idea to let them find their spade fit, partner should have introduced his hearts with any 7-count or better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 I might be being a bit thick, but shouldn't 1♥ be pretty strong in this auction? Not saying I would do it on this hand, obviously, but it affect what the baseline for 2♥ should be. Not sure it shows this hand though, since the hand is shrieking no trumps. 1H would show about 17-19 with 5 cards. I think the given hand is too strong for 1H. I agree that after 2H North should raise to 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Why can't I just have x AJxx Kxx AKxxx for 1♥? Well maybe it's a bad idea to let them find their spade fit, partner should have introduced his hearts with any 7-count or better.Yeah p will mostly have 0-6 points, or 7 points without a 4-card major. So with 1-2 spades it is better to pass. But make the hand a king stronger.... Maybe we can just bid 1NT with that hand, not ideal, but it allows 1♥ to promise five. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snillrik13 Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 Polish club is a fine system, however, Fantunes Lite is a Little better as all one of a suit are forcing one round. If you are interested in a playable Fantunes system visit www.fanfantunes.n.nu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 Why can't I just have x AJxx Kxx AKxxx for 1♥? Well maybe it's a bad idea to let them find their spade fit, partner should have introduced his hearts with any 7-count or better.I think 1♥ has to show the strong hand with hearts. You can't pass with five hearts and an 18 count, but you also can't bid 2♥.With clubs and a side suit of hearts, you can bid 2♣ or double for takeout, and it won't be a disaster. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted November 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 Polish club is a fine system, however, Fantunes Lite is a Little better as all one of a suit are forcing one round. If you are interested in a playable Fantunes system visit www.fanfantunes.n.nuThis is just spam. I saw your system already and I wasn't interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keylime Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 Nothing wrong with an old fashioned 2H here. If pard's trapping apologize afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 Polish club is a fine system, however, Fantunes Lite is a Little better as all one of a suit are forcing one round. If you are interested in a playable Fantunes system visit www.fanfantunes.n.nu Your rational for this is? Just because all 1 level bids are forcing certainly does not make Fantunes better, but significantly worse in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Polish club is a fine system, however, Fantunes Lite is a Little better as all one of a suit are forcing one round. ~snip~And this is better why exactly? Because you would've opened 1♥ after which opps intervene with 2♦ and you have to rebid 3♥ to show some extra strength? Polish club stays at 2-level to show 18+ with ♥s, that seems better to me... :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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