Bidding over X with Strong hand

[chasetb]

I was a tad aggressive with 2♠, but GIB didn't get it's hand across immediately, so I wrongly guessed it had 4♥.

[hv=sn=chasetb&s=S87542HA543DJ52C8&wn=Robot&w=SAJ9H972D976C9753&nn=Robot&n=ST3HQJ6DAKQTCKQJ2&en=Robot&e=SKQ6HKT8D843CAT64&d=e&v=o&b=14&a=1C%28Minor%20suit%20opening%20--%203+%20!C%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points%29PPD%283+%20!D%3B%203+%20!H%3B%203+%20!S%3B%209+%20HCP%29P2S%28Jump%20new%20suit%20--%204+%20!S%3B%209-15%20total%20point%29P3C%282-4%20!C%3B%202-4%20!D%3B%202-4%20!H%3B%202-4%20!S%3B%2018+%20total%20points%3B%20at%20best%20stop%20in%20!C%3B%20forcing%20to%203S%29P3S%285+%20!S%3B%209-15%20total%20points%29P3N%282-4%20!C%3B%202-4%20!D%3B%202-4%20!H%3B%202-4%20!S%3B%2025-%20HCP%3B%2018+%20total%20points%3B%20likely%20stop-stop%20in%20!C%29P4H%284+%20!H%3B%205+%20!S%3B%209-15%20total%20points%29PPP&p=C3CJCAC8SKS2S9S3SQS4SJSTC6S5C5CQHJH8H3H2HQHKHAH9H4H7H6HTS6S7SAC2C9CKCTS8DKD3D2D6DAD4D5D9DQD8DJD7DTC4H5C7]400|300[/hv]

[wank]

methinks you might want to query your own bidding first. 2♠ and 3♠ were both rather odd.

[1eyedjack]

And yet had he not bid 2S we might never have been introduced to the wonders of North's 3C bid. What's wrong with 3N?Or even 2N?

[Bbradley62]

methinks you might want to query your own bidding first. 2♠ and 3♠ were both rather odd.

Swap West's ♠A and South's ♠8 and continue the conversation...

 

3N over 2♠ seems clear to me, showing enough values for game opposite a legitimate minimum for South's call, with clubs well stopped.

[aguahombre]

Five, minus 3= two..on the borrow-a-king theory of balancing. So, "a tad aggressive" might be the understatement of the Century.

 

Your bot is just short of a 2NT balance, so the next step down is X followed by cheapest NT rebid. The bot I live with would have been playing the hand in 1NT.

[PhilKing]

I wrongly guessed it had 4♥.

 

Because there was no way to introduce hearts below 3NT. :ph34r:

[chasetb]

Five, minus 3= two..on the borrow-a-king theory of balancing. So, "a tad aggressive" might be the understatement of the Century. Your bot is just short of a 2NT balance, so the next step down is X followed by cheapest NT rebid. The bot I live with would have been playing the hand in 1NT.

If I was playing with a person and cared, then that would be a massive understatement. However, I felt the hand was worth 9 points with Spades as trump. Also, is it proven that GIB actually bids 2NT in balancing seat with a truly strong balanced hand?

 

Because there was no way to introduce hearts below 3NT. :ph34r:

Obviously, once I bid 3♠ there was no way. As 2♠ only showed 4, to get the 5th one across I had to bid 3♠. I also was mistakenly under the impression that GIB would have bid 2NT or 3NT if there wasn't a fit, so we "had" a 5-3 fit and I was trying to find the right contract. After all, GIB's 3♣ cuebid showed "at best 1 stop in ♣" so 3NT couldn't have been correct.

[PhilKing]

If I was playing with a person and cared, then that would be a massive understatement. However, I felt the hand was worth 9 points with Spades as trump. Also, is it proven that GIB actually bids 2NT in balancing seat with a truly strong balanced hand?

 

 

Obviously, once I bid 3♠ there was no way. As 2♠ only showed 4, to get the 5th one across I had to bid 3♠. I also was mistakenly under the impression that GIB would have bid 2NT or 3NT if there wasn't a fit, so we "had" a 5-3 fit and I was trying to find the right contract. After all, GIB's 3♣ cuebid showed "at best 1 stop in ♣" so 3NT couldn't have been correct.

 

I might be being a bit thick, but would not 3♥ show 54 in the majors?

[1eyedjack]

I might be being a bit thick, but would not 3♥ show 54 in the majors?

 

I would expect it only to promise 4-4. But then North could show 3 card delayed support for Spades with 3S (absent a 4th Heart).

 

Lacking values to force, I think it is right to bid Spades before Hearts with 4-4, so that the second suit can be shown at a more efficient level, given the opportunity (or if forced to do so).

[PhilKing]

I would expect it only to promise 4-4. But then North could show 3 card delayed support for Spades with 3S (absent a 4th Heart).

 

Lacking values to force, I think it is right to bid Spades before Hearts with 4-4, so that the second suit can be shown at a more efficient level, given the opportunity (or if forced to do so).

 

If you are 4-4M and have enough to jump, you have enough to cue bid. This is particularly clear because you are a passed hand, so the cue bid should only be a one round force. It's generally correct to bid down the line if you are not worth a jump.

 

Even if the above were not true it would still be obvious to bid 3♥ which can hardly deny 54. There were only two sound actions in the auction, and they occurred at GIB's 1st and 3rd call.

 

Regarding the initial 2♠ call, holding a 5431 shape it must be somewhat puzzling that the opponents have not bid a lot of clubs. Could it possibly be that partner has, of all things a strong balanced hand? That being so, there is no case whatsoever for adding on a load of distribution points and then leaping around.

[ahydra]

Have to agree strongly with Phil's last post (#10), but given GIB does have a strong balanced hand, it should have bid 2NT at its second turn to call.

 

ahydra

[steve2005]

Have to agree strongly with Phil's last post (#10), but given GIB does have a strong balanced hand, it should have bid 2NT at its second turn to call.

 

ahydra

 

Yes hydra is right. this is clear Gib has no clue what to bid if it doubles with a hand outside the normal range. Gib also has no clue how to bid if a human shows a hand outside the normal range for a takeout double but that's another thread even though I think it's related. :)

[Lovera]

If you are 4-4M and have enough to jump, you have enough to cue bid. This is particularly clear because you are a passed hand, so the cue bid should only be a one round force. It's generally correct to bid down the line if you are not worth a jump.

 

Even if the above were not true it would still be obvious to bid 3♥ which can hardly deny 54. There were only two sound actions in the auction, and they occurred at GIB's 1st and 3rd call.

 

Regarding the initial 2♠ call, holding a 5431 shape it must be somewhat puzzling that the opponents have not bid a lot of clubs. Could it possibly be that partner has, of all things a strong balanced hand? That being so, there is no case whatsoever for adding on a load of distribution points and then leaping around.

It should be that GIB having not support for spade inviting with 3♣ (one loser in clubs ..) with its balanced hand (what is the meaning of spade jump of South yet if passed with only 5 points and spade not protected ? It is not better to bid hearts ?)

[Lovera]

We know that rules for double (informative) answering are : with a weak hand (minus of 6 points Milton Work) first to bid longer suit (also when there are two suits), if same longness (MM, mm or Mm) cheapest bidding between them (when the only suit with 4/+ cards is that of opp bid the suit of 3 cards immediatly higher (cannot bid 1NT because this answer showing a certain force not has be used to indicate the lacking of a declarable suit), with an intermedie hand (6-7 points MW) with two suits (Mm) must be preferred the major(=M) suit, with 8-10 points MW bid both the suits (if it is possible) starting with higher one ..(From Stayman system "Answere to double" pagg 269 - 275)(Lovera)