A devisive hand

[the hog]

This hand was posted on another forum and the discussion was varied and got quite divisive. I am interested in opinions here.

The pun in the title was intentional before anyone comments.

 

All red

Pd opens 1S, (x)

 

You hold

Kxxxxxx

Ax

xxx

x

 

Your bid?

[Lord Molyb]

4♠

Please tell me why this is wrong

[mgoetze]

4♠

Please tell me why this is wrong

Well, it's not necessarily wrong, but it's extremely unlikely to be end the auction.

[1eyedjack]

4♠

Please tell me why this is wrong

 

I can construct some fairly normal hands where 6S is good but expect p to pass 4S. Not that that makes any other response better than 4S, but I worry.

[chasetb]

I would prefer a couple more HCP for 4♣ (splinter), but I think that's best on this hand.

[mike777]

Bergen raises are pretty common. If we play them then I will try 4d here which shows this hand type.(well, 5-6s not 7//) 4s or 4c or a splinter bid would show something else.

 

The reason to play this is it may give partner a lot of information in case she needs to make some high level decision.

[the hog]

I posted this because I argued strongly against the splinter. I think to splinter on this hand is terrible. You allow the opps the entire 4 level to x or bid as well as misrepresenting the hand. Imo the splinter players are playing with themselves and forgetting the other 3 players at the table.

[Cascade]

I think it is very likely that we are going to be wanting to make the last decision on this hand. Therefore we need information. Not sure what I would bid but I am very tempted to go low.

[chasetb]

Well Hog, unless you have a mini-splinter bid (I assumed you didn't), I think the splinter bid is best. With a 7-card Spade suit (thus promising a 12-card fit) and 3 controls, how isn't this hand worth the GF? Not only that, there is no way we are going to let partner whack it, so show the shortness and then bid on over them bidding.

[gwnn]

I like the agricultural 4S then 5S. Don't let them bid their stupid minors or hearts any lower than they should be allowed to. Partner should expect 6-card ish support. The ace of hearts is a bit of an extra but what can you do.

 

Splintering commonly shows a hand like

Kxxx

Axxx

KJxx

x

 

good luck convincing partner that your actual hand is 6 cards away from that distribution (3+2+1)..

[aguahombre]

I think it is very likely that we are going to be wanting to make the last decision on this hand. Therefore we need information. Not sure what I would bid but I am very tempted to go low.

Likewise, I think we want information and am not sure how to go about it; but, by "go low" I assume you mean slow down --- certainly not devalue.

 

Agree with Mr. Hog that Splintering and intending to keep bidding afterward is bad policy, and that a direct 4S is just plain wrong.

 

If this were one of those Bridgewinners bidding polls, I would just hit "skip". Partner would not be amused if I tried that at the table, so 2C (xfer) it is -- I am not going to get the information necessary, but it should be interesting from there.

[PhilKing]

There was a similar hand in the Bridge World a few years ago. The point is that if partner has a moderate opening bid, there is a pretty good chance the opponents can make 5♣.

 

So I am going for the jugular with a 2♣ response.

[whereagles]

This hand/situation is prone to all sorts of tactical bids. Therefore there is no "right" or "wrong"... all the following bids can work well or fail miserably:

 

2NT Truscott

4♠ pree

5♠ superpree

3NT Truscott (if available)

4♣ (if splinter.. some play as fitbid)

2♣ psych

2♦(!) psych

Pass(!!) megapsych, hoping to walk the dog and buy it in 4♠X (fat chance lol)

 

 

I think a straight 4♠ has a decent chance to win the pot because, since we have some cards, RHO rates to have an average takeout dbl and may not want to drive to the 5 level all by himself.

[gszes]

There is no rational way to bid these cards. A splinter is hugely underpowered

and p will mistakenly think QJT987 of spades is slam excellent. The tox has

a decent chance of getting the opps off to a good start but it may not have.

 

 

Bidding something like 2c might yield some good results but will probably

end up being revealed when we support spades and will really gum up the works

when p has a good hand (more so than 4s will).

 

If I was going to bid at the 2 level I would prefer 2h since that at least

might be a good lead director if the opps venture to slam. This hand still feels

too preemptive but I hate to give up on slam so I will hazard a 4n key card and

bid a slam if p shows 3 else sign off in 5s unless we have the tools for p to show

2 plus a useful void.

 

I have no intention of letting the opps play at the 5 level anyway so maybe this 4n

(im sure it will be really popular:) will scare them off more than a 4s bid will

(my 2nd choice)

[rhm]

I posted this because I argued strongly against the splinter. I think to splinter on this hand is terrible. You allow the opps the entire 4 level to x or bid as well as misrepresenting the hand. Imo the splinter players are playing with themselves and forgetting the other 3 players at the table.

I am not convinced. The splinter can win in many ways.

Admittedly partner needs the magic hand for 6♠, something like ♠AQJxx ♥xxx ♦x ♣AKxx if minimum.

But RHO, void in spades, might have doubled with 9 or 10 HCP and partner could well have more in HCP.

If the splinter deceives partner, it will also deceive opponents, since you are making a slam try.

They are unlikely to double you when you later compete further.

Say you bid 4♣ and let LHO in at the 4 level, who says they will not subside over a 4♠ bid thereafter?

A splinter may help partner on opening lead and find the best defense.

Incidentally I disagree that a splinter shows something like 4441. For me a splinter shows a shortage with no side suit worth bidding. Extra trump length is very welcome.

 

I am not claiming a splinter is great here, but who knows what is best. The splinter is slightly, not "hugely" underpowered. I think the splinter is as good as any of the alternatives.

Since partner must hold something outside of spades I would compete up to 5♠, but defend any higher contract.

 

Rainer Herrmann

[Fluffy]

3 card deviation is usually best psyche, 3♠ to make opponents thing partner has spade length.

 

I hate splinter, splinter is awful when we end up defending, which is quite likelly.

[rhm]

I hate splinter, splinter is awful when we end up defending, which is quite likelly.

I do not see your point.

If partner is on lead and has the ace of clubs or the ace of trumps he will know to lead clubs and if he does not he will shy away from a club lead.

The splinter undoubtedly helps the defense.

In fact without the splinter partner is likely to lead spades, possibly given a ruff and discard at trick one.

If partner has a finessable honor in clubs whom do you expect declarer plays for when he knows most of the HCP are with opener anyway?

 

Rainer Herrmann

[billw55]

4♠ for me also. This is what spades are for!

 

Or more technically: when we might easily have less than half the values, and the deal is obviously distributional, obstruction is important.

[Fluffy]

I do not see your point.

If partner is on lead and has the ace of clubs or the ace of trumps he will know to lead clubs and if he does not he will shy away from a club lead.

The splinter undoubtedly helps the defense.

In fact without the splinter partner is likely to lead spades, possibly given a ruff and discard at trick one.

If partner has a finessable honor in clubs whom do you expect declarer plays for when he knows most of the HCP are with opener anyway?

 

Rainer Herrmann

 

Yeah he will do a great job leading the club ace from AJx, sadly since it will be trumps it won't be very useful.

 

Now if some other suit becomes trumps and he has Q10xx he will also love our splinter.

[the_clown]

I would just pass and listen to the bidding, later I will save.

[nige1]

This hand was posted on another forum and the discussion was varied and got quite divisive. I am interested in opinions here. The pun in the title was intentional before anyone comments. All red Pd opens 1♠ (x) You hold ♠ K x x x x x x ♥ A x ♦ x x x ♣ x

IMO 4♠ = 10, 4♣ = 9, 2♠ = 6, 2♣ = 5. IMO walking the dog is a doubtful tactic because: opponents are vulnerable. 4♠ might win the auction, immediately, without palaver; 4♣ is also worth consideration because consulting with partner is often more effective than leaving lots of room for opponents to consult each other.

[ahydra]

I must admit 4S was my instinct as well but I then read the comments and was intrigued at the idea of a 2C or 2D psyche. Opps may well make 5C, or may not, so either has its appeal, but I think I would go with the simple 4S so as to keep things easy for partner if he has extras. Looking forward to the full story!

 

ahydra

[aguahombre]

I cannot imagine how 4S makes it easy for partner if she has extras. 4S is meant to silence a partner with extras.

 

Splinters in and of themselves are not treated as slam tries, commonly. They are descriptive bids within an allegedly narrow range, allowing PARTNER to make slam tries. So, both 4S and a splinter feel wrong here. This 7-count is worth a mild slam try opposite a 1S opening, IMO. Maybe the badguys will compete; oh, well. Even with some "psych" type game-force, we have established an unlimited game force.

[whereagles]

I really doubt our side can have a slam here... we'd need a very well-fitting hand across. As it stands, I see an extremely likely diamond loser, and both hearts and clubs are complete mysteries as to whether or not we'll have losers there.

 

4? sure, bid at least this.

5? probably makes as well.

6? not likely unless pard has a very good hand and LHO is completely broke.

[Cascade]

Likewise, I think we want information and am not sure how to go about it; but, by "go low" I assume you mean slow down --- certainly not devalue.

 

Agree with Mr. Hog that Splintering and intending to keep bidding afterward is bad policy, and that a direct 4S is just plain wrong.

 

2/1 2♦ will probably get ugly whether the opponents compete or not.

 

We have a FNT followed by 4S to show a "mixed" raise with long spades; but that doesn't feel right with a 7-fit, a bullet, and a shortness either. If this were one of those Bridgewinners bidding polls, I would just hit "skip". Partner would not be amused if I tried that at the table, so 2D it is -- I am not going to get the information necessary, but it should be interesting from there.

 

Definitely not devalue. Although not sure what I am devaluing compared with. I am certainly not thinking I have only 7 hcp and some spade support here.

 

I think 4♠ is wrong. It forces them to guess now but me to guess again on the subsequent round(s).