eagles123 Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 a general question, is it ever right to transfer over 1N with a 4 card suit - does this depend on the strength on 1NT if so what would be an example hand where you would transfer many thanks Eagles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgoetze Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 Not in any sort of standard system, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 I think it's much more often right to bid stayman with a five-card suit. Besides the usual 5/4 majors hands, I've had good success doing this on 5332 hands with a weak five-card suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 I might consider it with QJT9 and out but the short answer is no: - They haven't doubled 1NT yet. 2M might get doubled- If they double 1NT, we might be able to scramble. If they double 2M which could be a 4-2 fit there is no escape- If p has has 4-card support he will often superaccept- If p has 3-card support, he might compete after opps balance- If p has 2-card support, it is likely worse than 1NT even if they don't double Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 I transfer with 4 card suits much more often than others. When I am bored. I have yet to see a good result doing it http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve2005 Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 I've seen methods where a transfer is made on a 4-card suit with a canapé hand. Have seen this with both INV or GF. Didn't think much of it but everyone has their system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasetb Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 As many, many movies would say: NOOOOO, IT'S A TRAP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cthulhu D Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 I think it's much more often right to bid stayman with a five-card suit. Besides the usual 5/4 majors hands, I've had good success doing this on 5332 hands with a weak five-card suit. I think this has a lot to recommend it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 a general question, is it ever right to transfer over 1N with a 4 card suit - does this depend on the strength on 1NT if so what would be an example hand where you would transfer many thanks Eagles I presume by this you mean "is it right to use a standard transfer that normally shows 5 cards ...", I would say no, but over a wide range no trump a system using systemic 4 card inv+ transfers can be useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wank Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 the answer is yes. if you're playing a weak no trump, and have something close to 0, 4th hand is likely to have a penalty double. by transferring you make it, on the whole, more difficult for them to extract a penalty, even if they play double of the transfer as showing a hand which would have doubled 1nt. this is rather scoring and vulnerability dependent. at teams it's often best to take your medicine in 1nt. but at pairs you're often getting a bottom for a moderate penalty, say 500 against 430. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickRW Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Playing Stayman and at least red suit transfers, then it would be non standard - though as noted as above you'll sometimes get away with it. If you play Keri (or mods thereof) transfers on 4 (on some hand types) are routine - but then you're not playing Stayman in that way of doing things, 2♣ being used for other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kupi007 Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 Bidding directly 4-card ♥ suit with bad hand after weak nt have some appeal, but normally transfering to 4-card major is bad, you give extra chance to paly doubled, and as mentioned earlier, runouts after nt should handle bad hand with 4-card major that cannot stayman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatrix45 Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 Xfers with a 4 cd suit are a lie sometimes used to escape partner's 1NT opener when you have a hopelessly weak hand and are non-vul. It can work on a given hand, but it erodes confidence. It can occasionally get you in serious trouble when pard superaccepts. It's like having a man who lies about having sex with some floozie. It may be the best way to go in the short term, but eventually it usually becomes a problem. P.S. For what it is worth, I don't see the sense in playing Xfers over the weak NT. Fantunes and others do it, but they have a very complex and integrated system. Google 'Moscow Escapes' just for fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 a general question, is it ever right to transfer over 1N with a 4 card suit - does this depend on the strength on 1NTif so what would be an example hand where you would transfer IMO Transfers are artificial not natural bids. After a natural notrump bid, there are several conventional treatments that involve transfers to four card suits. In Tiger Bridge (1970), Jeremy Flint advocates 4 card transfers to escape undoubled, when partner opens a weak 1N and you have a weak hand. The hope is that 2M is less likely to be doubled than a weak notrump. He also suggests responding 3N with a weak hand and a long minor as an alternative tactic! In 1966, playing a weak notrump, Peter Pinder and he were 1st and 2nd in the McKenny Trophy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ochinko Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 I must admit, I transfer to a 4 card major almost always when I have a void or a singleton in the other major, and a hand that is so weak that wouldn't consider inviting. I can't really complain of the outcome. With a doubleton in the other major was always disastrous, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatrix45 Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 Bidding a 4-bagger like it was a 5+ bagger is OK (out of desperation) if you are playing opposite a weak or Kamikazi NT opener and you are very weak yourself. Playing Xfers opposite weak NT openers makes no sense to me, although a few top pairs do so for reasons I don't understand. You might enjoy googling 'moscow escapes bridge'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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