Hanoi5 Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 Pairs:♠AQJ♥AKQ87x♦x♣Kxx All red, you dealt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 To be honest this is a 1 level opening to me, however, unless I have sophisticated agreements on how to handle this type of hands after opening at one level, I open them 2♣, particularly when I have such a good suit and not scared of misfits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmnka447 Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 I'd open this big 4 loser hand with a strong 2 ♣ bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 1H. Trick question? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcphee Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 Yes I do not see what the issue is, this is worth only 1H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 ♣Yes I do not see what the issue is, this is worth only 1H.The risk of getting too high by opening this hand 2♣ can be exaggerated. The risk of aiming not high enough after 1♥ is much higher. I would not be happy if partner passes 1♥. I may need no more than the ♣Q. A yarborough with 3 hearts and 2 clubs might make game. You sometimes do get a black suit lead against 4♥So there are plenty of hands where a 2♣ opening could get "lucky".Anyway I have found out over the years that there is no extra penalty going down in game after a 2♣ opening compared to sequences, which did not start with 2♣. Meanwhile if I open 1♥ I have no comfortable rebid if partner responds 1♠. Yes I would bid 3♣ like most people, but this does not mean I like it or, if playing that, some convoluted Gazilli sequence, which is not my cup of tea either. (Though that would be much better here)Anyway opening 1♥ will mean you will loose all your bidding room on the second round you saved with not opening 2♣. I am not comfortable with the modern trend of opening lighter at the one level and at the same time raising the requirements for a 2♣ opening.The cost of this approach may be hidden, but is real. Rainer Herrmann 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 ♣The risk of getting too high by opening this hand 2♣ can be exaggerated. The risk of aiming not high enough after 1♥ is much higher. I would not be happy if partner passes 1♥. I may need no more than the ♣Q. A yarborough with 3 hearts and 2 clubs might make game. You sometimes do get a black suit lead against 4♥So there are plenty of hands where a 2♣ opening could get "lucky".Anyway I have found out over the years that there is no extra penalty going down in game after a 2♣ opening compared to sequences, which did not start with 2♣. Meanwhile if I open 1♥ I have no comfortable rebid if partner responds 1♠. Yes I would bid 3♣ like most people, but this does not mean I like it or, if playing that, some convoluted Gazilli sequence, which is not my cup of tea either. (Though that would be much better here)Anyway opening 1♥ will mean you will loose all your bidding room on the second round you saved with not opening 2♣. I am not comfortable with the modern trend of opening lighter at the one level and at the same time raising the requirements for a 2♣ opening.The cost of this approach may be hidden, but is real. Rainer Herrmann Some of us have methods, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 Easy 1♥ for us, we also happen to respond fairly light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 2♣ for me, on the theory that major strong 2s can be opened in that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrecisionL Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 1♥, partner won't pass with only an Ace, or K + Q. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 Pairs. All red. You dealt. ♠ A Q J ♥ A K Q 8 7 x ♦ x ♣ K x x IMO 2♣ = 10, 1♥ = 9. Initially, I judged to open 1♥ but rhm's arguments persuade me. If you open 1♥, this hand might pose rebid problems -- assuming you are lucky enough to ger the chance to rebid. You'd be unhappy to see partner pass 1♥ unless partner would have kept the bidding open on a 2 count. There seems to be a greater chance of 1♥ being passed out nowadays because players are aware that 2/1 exponents routinely open such hands at the one level. Also your ♠ holding makes it less likely that opponents will compete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 At first I looked at this and thought, obvious 1♥. Then I read Rainer's comment about what to rebid after partner's 1♠. And thought about it. It is a nuisance. Suggestions from the 1♥ crowd? Maybe another three card reverse 3♣? Is that less a distortion than opening 2♣? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 At first I looked at this and thought, obvious 1♥. Then I read Rainer's comment about what to rebid after partner's 1♠. And thought about it. It is a nuisance. Suggestions from the 1♥ crowd? Maybe another three card reverse 3♣? Is that less a distortion than opening 2♣? Art GF 2N for us which is part of the reason we open 1♥ follow up after the semi forced 3♣ response is 3♠ showing 3-6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 At first I looked at this and thought, obvious 1♥. Then I read Rainer's comment about what to rebid after partner's 1♠. And thought about it. It is a nuisance. Suggestions from the 1♥ crowd? Maybe another three card reverse 3♣? Is that less a distortion than opening 2♣? If you open 1♥ and are fortunate enough to get a 1♠ or 1N response, then a forcing Gazzilli 2♣ takes care of initial rebid problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve2005 Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 Wile this is a 4-loser hand its a mirage. if you can't get to dummy your going to lose K♣, so is really a 5-loser hand opposite a poor hand. So if partner cant respond game unlikely to be missed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovera Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 Wile this is a 4-loser hand its a mirage. if you can't get to dummy your going to lose K♣, so is really a 5-loser hand opposite a poor hand. So if partner cant respond game unlikely to be missed.I think as you have said too because the opening 2♣ that i use is based on my consideration to count only longness plus Milton Work : in this way 2♣ is used more often but if not consider longness (21 points) we must open to first level applying official method (G. Barbone) (4 losers x 5=20, Milton Work 19). All it is depending as you like ..(Lovera) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 The risk of opening 2!C on this hand is that partner gets you too high. It's a Acol 2!H opening i.e. not worth a game force. If you include hands like that in your 2!C opening, then fine, but that's a different method.And as others have said, 'obviously' you play some methods if the auction starts 1!H - 1!S. Even if you don't, 1!H - 1!S - 3!C tells partner you have a strong hand not good enough to opening it 2!C which is quite descriptive. I very much doubt I will miss game if partner passes a 1!H opening, unless partner believes he needs 6 HCP to respond at the 1-level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 I very much doubt I will miss game if partner passes a 1!H opening, unless partner believes he needs 6 HCP to respond at the 1-level. I agree, xxx, xx, xxxxx, QJx looks the most likely hand to miss a decent game, but quite unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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