onoway Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Today we hosted a teaching session by McPhee in IAC and I was constantly dealing with howls of anguish from people who couldn't reach us. I suspect that generally it was because they hadn't got their setting on "show all tables" as a couple of them said they could get to the club but not get in. When I eventually had to tell them to click on my name and join table they had no problem, so it wasn't that they weren't being recognized as members. I think that they were being told there were no open tables in the club and they had no idea what to do then. I know that telling them to right click on my name and join would be faster way to do it but that doesn't solve the problem for the next time or the time after that. I've also been told by several that they couldn't find the settings for show all tables. This has been an ongoing problem for a very long time, but usually the players are trying to come in on their own rather than in a clump so I can handhold and shepherd them in. Today was not fun and I know that at least one of them even appealed to a yellow to help. One person emailed me but I was busy and never got it until well after the class so she never did get in. Can something be done to make it a little easier for people? It's sometimes difficult to take the time to tell a kibber how to get around the program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 I think that the "show all tables" option is only relevant in the windows download client. Are you sure that all of the problem cases are using that entry method? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diana_eva Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 I think that the "show all tables" option is only relevant in the windows download client. Are you sure that all of the problem cases are using that entry method? She means the switches at the top, where user can see "Open tables" "Full tables" or "Friends". In private clubs where there aren't too many tables it often happens that all tables are "full", none is "open", but the default is to show "open tables", so when someone enters the club he can see that there are tables, yet none is displayed on the screen. Many don't know that they can click the button at the top of the list of tables and switch to Full Tables to access the table they are looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 What do you think we should do differently? The default setting is designed for people looking for places to play, which we assume is a more common activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onoway Posted October 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Kibbing is popular enough that it seems it might be useful to have that an easier option to access. The huge numbers of kibs at the JEC matches alone are an indication kibbing isn't limited to a few random people kibbing once in a while. Then there are all the teaching sessions .. Perhaps an option to kib could be incorporated so it doesn't matter if tables full or not? I don't know as my computer skills are feeble at best so wouldn't presume to offer what anyone "should do". I was just earnestly wishing on Sunday that it wasn't so difficult for so many people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Maybe we just need to change the tabs on the Show Tables screen? Currently it's "Open Tables", "Full Tables", and "Friends". Should it be "Play Bridge", "Watch Bridge",and "Friends", like the subsections in the "Help Me Find a Game" page? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillHiggin Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 What do you think we should do differently? The default setting is designed for people looking for places to play, which we assume is a more common activity.Perhaps, set a threshold below which all non-empty tables are shown. For example, if there are 8 or fewer tables active in a private club, simply show them all without regard to available seats. I find it mildly confusing to go to IAC, see a non-zero table count, but see no tables (well, I have been at this long enough that the confusion is certainly short lived). Looking for a place to play may be the default, but I go to the IAC because I would rather watch people I know than play with the randoms in the main room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Maybe we just need to change the tabs on the Show Tables screen? Currently it's "Open Tables", "Full Tables", and "Friends". Should it be "Play Bridge", "Watch Bridge",and "Friends", like the subsections in the "Help Me Find a Game" page?Instead of changing labels, or having variable methods based on club activity, how about adding "All Tables" as an option? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eleanorsf Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Instead of changing labels, or having variable methods based on club activity, how about adding "All Tables" as an option? I agree this is the best option. One private club is Total Points Tournament, or TPT. When a player arrives for a scheduled tourney, he goes to Full Tables to locate the TD table. The TD table serves as a staging area for the tourney. So it would be confusing to TPT members to see a choice "Play Bridge" and have it list open tables, when in order to really play bridge in TPT, you need to go to full tables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyllow Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 In your announcement of a special IAC class, why not include something like "when you reach the IAC be sure to select Full Tables to join the class?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 It has been a long time since I used the Windows download client, but from recollection you could separately and independently filter the displayed tables to show/hide tables that (1) were incomplete/open, (2) contained friends, (3) contained stars, and possibly other parameters. That seems to be the most flexible arrangement, and I should have thought it sensible to provide that through the Flash interface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diana_eva Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Instead of changing labels, or having variable methods based on club activity, how about adding "All Tables" as an option? I don't think that would solve much. IMO the issue is blindness to the switches at the top, regardless of how they are labelled. As soon as players realize that there are filtering options available they will manage. But they aren't aware that these exist. I like Bill's suggestion to default to all tables when there are less than X tables in a club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallway Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 This is not just a Private Club Issue - the same problem exists for the Public Clubs e.g. the BILies Retreat which is a predominately teaching club therefore a crowd only gathers when there is a lesson. practice session, gathering for a teams match etc. to attend Changing the name of the TABS will not make one jot of difference It takes time to educate people on the use of the software. They go to attend an advertised lesson which invariably has full tables from the get go - teachers either sit in all 4 seats or reserve them until they are ready to start In the V1 (WINDOWS client) there was no problem, enter the club and all tables with or without free seats were displayed For some years now new BBOers have been joining via V2 (Web Client) - for the past 2 (?) years they have been unable to download V1 therefore they all have to be educated on the use of V2. Yes, a few will educate themselves - the vast majority ? - no way - lol My work a round:new members get a welcome letter which mentions the need to click on the FULL table Tab within 2 weeks they get 3 bulletins with detailed help one of which deals solely with Finding their way to the BIL lessons etc.within 2 weeks of joining a BILFriend contacts them and offers to guide them 6 out of 7 days of the week the BIL holds Hosted Play time sessions with a Q & A for new members 20th month they get a Gazette which again gives the navigation20th month members who joined during the previous month get a Bulletin reminding them of the things they need to remember - of which using the FULLTable tab features prominently For the sake of non BIL members when I list a BBO Highlight and invite any BBO Beginner and Intermediate player to a Lesson or Guest session in the BILies Retreat Public Club I always add ' click on FULL table tab" When the BILAssists announce a lesson they too add - "click on FULL table tab" Does all of this solve the problem ? - NO it does not ! It does help though which keeps our sanity within reasonable bounds ! For level restricted courses the acceptance letter spells out step by step how to get there - I standby at the first and second lessons to take attendance - and even with all of that, without fail I do still have to guide at least a couple who are 'lost' And still there are many to whom we find it necessary to explain in minute detail exactly where one looks for that seemingly elusive FULL Table TAB - mayhap it would help if it was a neon light! The ANSWER is most assuredly to have that attribute as suggested above whereby in BOTH the Private and Public Clubs if there are less than X number of tables active whether with open seats for not ALL the tables will be shown as soon as one clicks on Join P L E A S E Please, Please make that happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 My work a round:new members get a welcome letter which mentions the need to click on the FULL table Tab within 2 weeks they get 3 bulletins with detailed help one of which deals solely with Finding their way to the BIL lessons etc.within 2 weeks of joining a BILFriend contacts them and offers to guide them...Please clarify that these notices should go to BIL members, not all new BBO members. When I join a website, I don't want a pile of such "let us hold your hand" nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallway Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 of course only to new BIL members - and to further clarify only beginner and intermediate players can join the BIL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallway Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 oh how I wish all were like you Mr Bradley - think of all the time and money I could save ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Returning to the download client as a comparison, with all tables displayed you could sort them with open tables at the top (or the reverse). By sorting tables you automatically introduce a level of filtration without (or before) going to the trouble of hiding any Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 It has been a long time since I used the Windows download client, but from recollection you could separately and independently filter the displayed tables to show/hide tables that (1) were incomplete/open, (2) contained friends, (3) contained stars, and possibly other parameters. That seems to be the most flexible arrangement, and I should have thought it sensible to provide that through the Flash interface.One of the philosophical changes that went into the design of the Flash client was to reduce the plethora of options, to keep things simpler. It's a delicate balancing act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onoway Posted October 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 What Maureen said is absolutely our experience as well. Bridge players may read bridge books, but they certainly don't seem to read instructions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 What Maureen said is absolutely our experience as well. Bridge players may read bridge books, but they certainly don't seem to read instructions.It's not just bridge players. No one reads instructions on web sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onoway Posted October 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 Many of us got trained early to realize that generally we wouldn't understand them anyway :) I once struggled through the barriers and got to Microsoft about an email issue way back when, and got a three page reply instructing me how to fix it which was totally incomprehensible to me and to two friends I asked for help deciphering the thing. I ended up having to abandon the account. That happens often enough and people begin to assume they won't understand so don't even bother...or at least that's my theory. Lots of computer talented people just have no concept, it seems, just how convoluted things are to us computer challenged people when they seem so simple and straightforward to them. I've often wondered why these companies don't have a cadre of non computer people to test drive programs before they loose them on a whimpering public. Or have parallel programs, one for people who want a computer that will do everything but tie your shoelaces and bring you coffee and those who just want the basics. It would be a very interesting market research project to see how many people bought - and used - which. The branding of being extremely user friendly was what got Apple its jump start to success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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