Your rebid ?

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Partner opens a strong, artificial 2C.

With NO interference, a 2D response is waiting, but positive; whereas 2H = super negative ( no A or K or 2Q's ).

But 2nd seat DBLs 2C ( showing clubs ) and you RDBL to show your super negative :

2C - ( DBL ) - RDBL! - ( pass )

2H - ( p ) - ??

 

Partner bids 2H ... What would you select as your next bid :

 

♠ 10 9 8 7 4

♥ Q 10

♦ 10 9 5 4

♣ J 7

[Cyberyeti]

I bid 2♠ initially, this auction is 100% GF for us once partner fails to rebid 2N, so will see what pd does. I will often be able to show a better than misere double negative here depending on what partner does.

 

Btw, it may well make sense to play 2♥ Kokish in this sequence and where partner passes, particularly in this auction if your minimum for 2♣/2N is less than 23 so partner can better judge whether to bid game.

[billw55]

hmmm, interesting. (original reply edited out upon reconsideration)

[helene_t]

Not sure if this hand qualifies as super-negative. Regardless of which suit partner has I have ruffing value plus either length or an honour in his suit. And opposite 23 bal I want to be in game.

 

I think I try 2♠ now which partner hopefully won't pass too often. Maybe a 3♣ cuebid is more intelligent but I won't know what to do if partner bid 3NT over that.

[kenrexford]

2S seems completely obvious,, but the next calls might be interesting.

[aguahombre]

After my redouble, 2H should be passable, but with that working queen of hearts, I am willing to proceed. 2S, and then 3H, seems about right for choice of strains.

 

If Opener raises Spades, immediately, I will gut out four. No slam after that 2H rebid, unless partner goes nuts liking spades a whole lot.

[wanoff]

After my redouble, 2H should be passable, but with that working queen of hearts, I am willing to proceed. 2S, and then 3H, seems about right for choice of strains.

 

If Opener raises Spades, immediately, I will gut out four. No slam after that 2H rebid, unless partner goes nuts liking spades a whole lot.

 

In the UK 2♥ is FG so you begin by looking for the correct strain. (no mention of Kokish here)

[aguahombre]

In the UK 2♥ is FG so you begin by looking for the correct strain. (no mention of Kokish here)

That would be strange and would mean all unbalanced 2C opening bids are forcing to game in and of themselves. Otherwise, with say a hand worth about 9 tricks for hearts and knowing partner is likely to have zero tricks to add must nevertheless proceed up there. A AKJXXX AKXX KX rebids 2NT instead of 2H when partner is known to be bust?

[Cyberyeti]

That would be strange and would mean all unbalanced 2C opening bids are forcing to game in and of themselves. Otherwise, with say a hand worth about 9 tricks for hearts and knowing partner is likely to have zero tricks to add must nevertheless proceed up there. A AKJXXX AKXX KX rebids 2NT instead of 2H when partner is known to be bust?

 

Not everybody in the UK would even open 2♣ on the hand you give. Many would open a strong 2 either directly, via a multi or via a benji style 2♣ (or 2♦ if playing reverse). I would probably open 2♣, but if any weaker at all I'd open 1♥. Also most in the UK below top level still don't play the 2♥ double neg style.

[fromageGB]

In the UK 2♥ is FG so you begin by looking for the correct strain. (no mention of Kokish here)

If I'd shown that negative by a redouble, no way is a mere 2♥ GF. I am sure many of us that do not play strong 2s play a 2♣ as possibly a trick less than game.

[fromageGB]

While 2♠ may be "obvious", 3♦ is a candidate that may prove better for when opener is 2-suited, and would have opened spades with both majors. That would be my choice if not playing Kokish.

[wank]

2♣ is a GF for almost everyone. it's got nothing to do with whether you play 1960s english bridge or not and more to do with not having to pre-empt yourself on the 2nd round when you hold a strong and possibly 2 or 3 suited hand. if you have something that looks like a game force, you force to game and, sad story, but sometimes it doesn't make.

[aguahombre]

Anyway, back to the Texan who posted this thread and didn't suggest playing strong two's.

[mike777]

2s now. no problem yet.

 

 

Assume 2c is not gf. assume 2h is passable.

 

 

will rebid 3nt over 2nt or 3h over 3c rebid.

[MrAce]

UK or not, super negative or heavy duty, 2♥ is forcing 1 round at least. It would be ridiculous for opener to have to jump to make a forcing bid after already opening 2♣ and wasting space. 2♣ itself is FG unless few rebids. Last thing a method cater for should be to stop at 2M after opening 2♣.

[gszes]

Even the worst of the worst (non balanced) 2c opening bids should be worth at

least 9 tricks. Unbalanced hands with minors are so difficult to show using 2c

many are opened 1m even with 23 24 counts that aren't game forcing. The point is

that once 2c is opened and 2n not rebid the simple solution to most rebidding

problems is to keep the bidding open to at least as high as 2N/3M/4m.

 

W/o this simple (and virtually painless) agreement we end up having to start

jumping all over the place to show slammish hands when we opened 2c in an attempt

to do avoid just that problem. This agreement vastly increases the number of hands

that a 2c bid can cover and relieves a lot of the pressure from having to decide to

underbid with a 1 level opening or force to game with a 9 trick hand. This approach

works quite well with or w/o super negatives.

 

The above agreement allows for a simple

 

2s

 

bid w/o any worries about suddenly being passed out and allowing the strong 2 opener room

to bid something in an attempt to describe their hand. It also means the 2h rebid was still

unlimited.

 

follow ups with our piece of (at least somewhat tasty) piece of cheese will mostly be natural

and designed to get us to the best contract. We have no desire to stop below game after the

bidding sequence given so my follow ups would be

 

2n (nf) 3n

3c 3d

3d 5d (4d would be nf)

3h (nf) 4h

3s (nf) 4s

3n pass

4c/d (splinters in support of spades) 5s

4h (nf) pass with slam interest opener should have cue bid 3c

and then bid 4h (or 3h if available)

4s (nf) pass with slam interest opener should have cue bid 3c

and then bid 4s (or 3s if available)

5c/d splinters and looking for slam

5h a rare bird where we have 5 decent (sotospeak) spades and 3+

hearts maybe QJ9xx xxx xxx xx or some such

 

If I have to worry about 2h being non forcing (and thus 2s non forcing)

I would be visibly irritated and thus subject to UI rules while I was considering

my next bid would be 4h saving a (NF) 3h bid for a hand with nothing but 4 hearts

in case the extra trump length made openers hand worth game.

[mike777]

even if you play 2h by opener as nf.....2s by responder is forcing

[TWO4BRIDGE]

After my redouble, 2H should be passable, but with that working queen of hearts, I am willing to proceed. 2S, and then 3H, seems about right for choice of strains.

 

If Opener raises Spades, immediately, I will gut out four. No slam after that 2H rebid, unless partner goes nuts liking spades a whole lot.

[hv=pc=n&s=sj2hj63d2cakt9854&w=st9874hqtdt954cj7&n=s65h942dqj63cq632&e=sakq3hak875dak87c]399|300[/hv]

 

West

p - ( p ) - 2C - ( DBL )

RDBL-( p )- 2H - ( p )

3H - ( p ) - 4H - all pass

 

Making 6H or 7S

[the hog]

Partner opens a strong, artificial 2C.

With NO interference, a 2D response is waiting, but positive; whereas 2H = super negative ( no A or K or 2Q's ).

But 2nd seat DBLs 2C ( showing clubs ) and you RDBL to show your super negative :

2C - ( DBL ) - RDBL! - ( pass )

2H - ( p ) - ??

 

Partner bids 2H ... What would you select as your next bid :

 

♠ 10 9 8 7 4

♥ Q 10

♦ 10 9 5 4

♣ J 7

 

2S

[the hog]

After my redouble, 2H should be passable, but with that working queen of hearts, I am willing to proceed. 2S, and then 3H, seems about right for choice of strains.

 

If Opener raises Spades, immediately, I will gut out four. No slam after that 2H rebid, unless partner goes nuts liking spades a whole lot.

 

2C is gameforcing for the whole world unless opener rebids 2NT or unless you play Benjy 2S.

[neilkaz]

2♠ WTP?

[gordontd]

That would be strange and would mean all unbalanced 2C opening bids are forcing to game in and of themselves.

And your point is? :)

[fromageGB]

2♣ is a GF for almost everyone. it's got nothing to do with whether you play 1960s english bridge or not and more to do with not having to pre-empt yourself on the 2nd round when you hold a strong and possibly 2 or 3 suited hand. if you have something that looks like a game force, you force to game and, sad story, but sometimes it doesn't make.

I fully agree that 2♣ is F, but it was the "G" I object to. The 2♥ continuation I too would take as forcing, but not GF. If you bid the next step then opener can describe his 2-suiter. A 3-suiter is best managed with a different opening in my view. But 2♣ automatically GF, or 2♥ automatically GF after a double negative? Certainly not.

[helene_t]

Isn't the main point of playing the super-negative response to allow us to end in 3M? I think that if I played 2♣ as GF unless balanced I would prefer to use the 2♥ response for something else.

[fromageGB]

Back to the hand. Of course with this hand you will bid anyway, whether 2♥ was forcing or not. But assume it is forcing one bid, and you have not agreed to play Kokish (or an automatic 2♠ continuation).

 

Is there not a case for playing paradox responses, to cater for opener having an unspecified 2-suiter? Bid the suit you do NOT want to play in? Here on this hand you bid 3♣, so that opener plays the hand. Now whatever opener chooses as his second suit you can raise to game. All else being equal, it is better for opener to be playing the contract rather than you, as could happen if you bid spades.

 

Is this another time for paradox responses?