bluechip10 Posted September 27, 2014 Report Share Posted September 27, 2014 I have a new partner who is OK-ish with Stayman but doesn't want to learn Jacoby Transfers just yet. We play Acol - Weak No Trump. With this hand, what is my bid? With my other partner I would not have used Stayman but transferred to hearts and then bid 2♠ invitational. Here I think I have to sign off in 2♥ even though game may be on if partner is max. What if I changed the ♣Q for ♣K?[hv=pc=n&s=sat74hk9765dq7cq5&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1np2cp2dp]133|200[/hv]Easy one. Bid 2 hearts, showing 5 hearts and no chance for game (12-14 1NT opener). I discount the responder's hand and call it a "lousy" 11 points. If 13-15, then 3 hearts (invitational and showing 5 hearts). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted September 27, 2014 Report Share Posted September 27, 2014 3 hearts (invitational and showing 5 hearts). This is traditionally forcing in natural systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted September 27, 2014 Report Share Posted September 27, 2014 This is traditionally forcing in natural systems. I don't know which natural system you played, but it was always invitational to me as a beginner, although it's something else entirely to me now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted September 27, 2014 Report Share Posted September 27, 2014 I don't know which natural system you played, but it was always invitational to me as a beginner, although it's something else entirely to me now. It's forcing in basic Acol, and was in Goren's system as well. It is also forcing in rubber bridge, which allows almost no artificial or conventional bids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycroft Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 So, in England, Stayman-then-2M is invitational, 5; which means that 2M direct is to play and 3M direct is forcing.in North America, Goren may have said the same thing, but Garbage Stayman took hold, and even without transfers, Stayman-then-2M was 5M-4oM, weak; 2M was to play, and 3M direct was INV. Frequently with a 2♦ ART GF, of course... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 So, in England, Stayman-then-2M is invitational, 5; which means that 2M direct is to play and 3M direct is forcing. No it isn't. Very few people play 1N-2♣-2♦-2♥ as anything other than potential garbage opposite a weak no trump, but the rest is right if you don't play transfers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 I don't know which natural system you played, but it was always invitational to me as a beginner, although it's something else entirely to me now. In traditional Acol, SA, 2/1 etc this has always been 6+H forcing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 In traditional Acol, SA, 2/1 etc this has always been 6+H forcing. 6+? And with a 5-card suit you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Yes 6+. I guess 5 if you are unbelievably old fashioned that you do not play transfers. Or unless you play a complicated Gladiator style system which I used to play with one partner only - his choice, but it was certainly effective. To those who argue that transfers are unnecessary in a wnt system, I say "You are wrong". The options given by transfers are legion and outweigh the disadvantages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Yes 6+. I guess 5 if you are unbelievably old fashioned that you do not play transfers. Well, that is what the thread is about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 In traditional Acol, SA, 2/1 etc this has always been 6+H forcing. In traditional acol, 1N-3♥ was 6+♥ forcing (and we still play this alongside transfers to show one suited slam interest) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMB1 Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 In traditional acol, 1N-3♥ was 6+♥ forcing (and we still play this alongside transfers to show one suited slam interest) In traditional acol, without transfers, 1N-3♥ was 5+♥ forcing: choice of games with 5 ♥ or slam try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 In traditional acol, without transfers, 1N-3♥ was 5+♥ forcing: choice of games with 5 ♥ or slam try. True, I forgot about the second meaning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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