Best way to 6 Hearts

[dickiegera]

[hv=pc=n&w=sakq2haq52dkq6ckt&e=sj86hkt874d874ca4&d=e&v=b&b=10&a=pp2cp2dp2np3dp]266|200|2 diamonds is positive response. 2NT shows 22-23 HCP. 3 diamonds is transfer.[/hv]

 

 

 

 

We play 2♦ is positive response and 2♥ would be a negative response [Kokish]. To show a good Heart suit over 2♣ we would bid 2NT, however we need a better heart suit than K10xxx

 

What can be done after 3♦ transfer bid to get to 6♥?

 

Thank you

[mike777]

tough one perhaps over 3d:

 

assume no super accept

 

 

3h=3nt

4c=5c

?

 

May miss this slam but you do have only a 3 loser hand so....

[mcphee]

One thing that is quite sensible to play is over 2NT transfers do not accept the transfer with less than 3 trumps. This has 2 big plus sides, first it means that any advance after the acceptance of the transfer is a cue bid, secondly a new suit after a non acceptance now shows a real suit. The down side is you can't stop below game level when partner fails to accept, so a lot of plus and very little minus.

 

2C 2D

2N 3D 2N showing 22-24 which means to responder you are near slam area if you have a fit

3H 4C 3H shows 3+H and 4C is obviously the ace or shortness

 

after this it is rather easy to reach your slam.

[whereagles]

I don't think it's that tough. 30-31 HCP + doubleton makes it clear for responder to drive to slam if opener shows a heart fit.

[Jinksy]

Even after 2♣ 2♦ / 2N 3♦ / 3N, opener can cue to show a good hand not quite up to a superaccept (though I'm not sure why on this hand he's not).

[the hog]

[hv=pc=n&w=sakq2haq52dkq6ckt&e=sj86hkt874d874ca4&d=e&v=b&b=10&a=pp2cp2dp2np3dp]266|200|2 diamonds is positive response. 2NT shows 22-23 HCP. 3 diamonds is transfer.[/hv]

 

 

 

 

We play 2♦ is positive response and 2♥ would be a negative response [Kokish]. To show a good Heart suit over 2♣ we would bid 2NT, however we need a better heart suit than K10xxx

 

What can be done after 3♦ transfer bid to get to 6♥?

 

Thank you

 

3D 3S

4C and now you have a shot after KC

[ggwhiz]

I'm having trouble constructing an auction that does NOT get there.

 

Even after 3♥ - 3nt - 4♥ I would cue the ♣ Ace

[mikeh]

One thing that is quite sensible to play is over 2NT transfers do not accept the transfer with less than 3 trumps. This has 2 big plus sides, first it means that any advance after the acceptance of the transfer is a cue bid, secondly a new suit after a non acceptance now shows a real suit. The down side is you can't stop below game level when partner fails to accept, so a lot of plus and very little minus.

 

2C 2D

2N 3D 2N showing 22-24 which means to responder you are near slam area if you have a fit

3H 4C 3H shows 3+H and 4C is obviously the ace or shortness

 

after this it is rather easy to reach your slam.

We often agree on our ideas on this forum, but I think this approach of rejecting a transfer with a doubleton is horrible.

 

When responder has a bad hand and is just trying to find a place to play, rejecting the transfer when we lack a fit is terrible. Responder's hand will make some tricks in trump, simply from length or being able to ruff something. xxx QJxxx xxx xx wants to play 3♥ opposite a 20 count hand with, say, Ax, Kx or AK in hearts, not 3N!

 

You may argue that these are infrequent hands, and I'd agree with you. However, they can cost you a lot of mps, and a fair number of imps, when they arise, and any gain from this method will also arise, if at all, infrequently. I've played against players who use this method...admittedly infrequently...and don't recall them getting any good results from it.

 

And the notion that any bid by responder after an acceptance is a cuebid is something I played 30 years ago and learned, eventually, was a bad idea. Sometimes we belong in the side suit! Even with a 5-4 fit in the major, we may belong in a 4-4 side fit...this is even more likely in a 5-3 set-up. Not only do we get discards on the 5 card suit but, and importantly, imagine a suit that is the equivalent of AQxxx opposite Kxx and the suit breaks 4-1. If we are in our side fit, assuming it breaks 3-2, we can ruff to establish this major, but we'd have an unavoidable trump loser if that were trump.

 

For example, on this OP hand, the method would be irrelevant. No matter what one's approach, opener has a monster and must break the transfer to show it.

 

I know I am not now speaking to you, Bob, since you are no walter the walrus, but, folks, let's stop thinking in terms of hcp or, if we must, let's recognize some realities about valuation.

 

Hcp have symbiotic relationships with each other. Honours grouped together add strength to each other. Opener has a lot of values.

 

In addition, Aces and Kings are undervalued in the 4321 count, and Queens and Jacks overvalued. Look at opener: no Jacks! 5 of the honours are Aces and Kings...he has 7 controls.

 

One can think in terms of slam once the side has 10+ controls, so long as we have some internal texture and/or shape, and so having 7 controls means that slam may be makeable opposite an A and a K.....we need to let partner in on the good news.

 

A typical 22 count will hold 5 or 6 controls...we have extra controls, extra shape, and maximum hcp on the simplistic, conservative scale.

 

How one super-accepts is for partnership agreement. In my methods, for example, the transfer didn't even promise hearts (it could be various low-frequency slam interest hands, but is hearts 90% or more) so we can't super-accept other than by 3♠.

 

So long as the super-accept is no higher than 3N, east has a routine clue in clubs and now opener can basically commit to slam...I doubt one can construct a hand on which responder has the club A and slam interest and we have no play.

[Fluffy]

I've played all my life that 2NT-3♦-3♥ shows 3+, it is super frequent and avoids a lot of trouble for slams.

 

I don't recall ever wanting to play 3M and missing it.

[neilkaz]

mikeh said "For example, on this OP hand, the method would be irrelevant. No matter what one's approach, opener has a monster and must break the transfer to show it."

 

Yes this..wow! the range stated is 22-23 and this is a prime 23 count with a doubleton and 4 card support. Supermax means super accept is a must.

[dickiegera]

We often agree on our ideas on this forum, but I think this approach of rejecting a transfer with a doubleton is horrible.

 

When responder has a bad hand and is just trying to find a place to play, rejecting the transfer when we lack a fit is terrible. Responder's hand will make some tricks in trump, simply from length or being able to ruff something. xxx QJxxx xxx xx wants to play 3♥ opposite a 20 count hand with, say, Ax, Kx or AK in hearts, not 3N!

 

You may argue that these are infrequent hands, and I'd agree with you. However, they can cost you a lot of mps, and a fair number of imps, when they arise, and any gain from this method will also arise, if at all, infrequently. I've played against players who use this method...admittedly infrequently...and don't recall them getting any good results from it.

 

And the notion that any bid by responder after an acceptance is a cuebid is something I played 30 years ago and learned, eventually, was a bad idea. Sometimes we belong in the side suit! Even with a 5-4 fit in the major, we may belong in a 4-4 side fit...this is even more likely in a 5-3 set-up. Not only do we get discards on the 5 card suit but, and importantly, imagine a suit that is the equivalent of AQxxx opposite Kxx and the suit breaks 4-1. If we are in our side fit, assuming it breaks 3-2, we can ruff to establish this major, but we'd have an unavoidable trump loser if that were trump.

 

For example, on this OP hand, the method would be irrelevant. No matter what one's approach, opener has a monster and must break the transfer to show it.

 

I know I am not now speaking to you, Bob, since you are no walter the walrus, but, folks, let's stop thinking in terms of hcp or, if we must, let's recognize some realities about valuation.

 

Hcp have symbiotic relationships with each other. Honours grouped together add strength to each other. Opener has a lot of values.

 

In addition, Aces and Kings are undervalued in the 4321 count, and Queens and Jacks overvalued. Look at opener: no Jacks! 5 of the honours are Aces and Kings...he has 7 controls.

 

One can think in terms of slam once the side has 10+ controls, so long as we have some internal texture and/or shape, and so having 7 controls means that slam may be makeable opposite an A and a K.....we need to let partner in on the good news.

 

A typical 22 count will hold 5 or 6 controls...we have extra controls, extra shape, and maximum hcp on the simplistic, conservative scale.

 

How one super-accepts is for partnership agreement. In my methods, for example, the transfer didn't even promise hearts (it could be various low-frequency slam interest hands, but is hearts 90% or more) so we can't super-accept other than by 3♠.

 

So long as the super-accept is no higher than 3N, east has a routine clue in clubs and now opener can basically commit to slam...I doubt one can construct a hand on which responder has the club A and slam interest and we have no play.

 

Thank you for your GREAT answers.

Partner and I figured out to do just as you suggested.

 

What if after 2NT transfer is to Spades. Would you use 3NT as super-accept or would it be 4 Clubs? We can see 4 clubs if opener has Ace of clubs and using 3NT if he doesn't.

 

Lastly you said 7 controls, could you list the 7?

 

Thanks again

[mikeh]

I use 3N as the super-accept in some partnerships. In others, 3N would deny the club A, 4♣ would show that A and deny the diamond, 4♦ would show both minor aces and deny the heart Ace, 4♥ would show the 3 side aces and deny the spade Ace, and 4♠ would promise all the Aces.

 

As for the 7 controls, it is normal, when speaking of 'controls' to count Ace as 2 and a King as 1, so here we have 2 Aces and 3 Kings, for 7 controls. There are 12 controls in the deck so absent any stiff or void, one normally wants at least 10 controls for slam....you don't usually want to be in a slam missing an ace and a king unless one has shortness in one of the relevant suits. Please note that this is a general guide, not an absolute rule (tho obviously being off 2 aces or a cashing AK is a bad idea)

[Cyberyeti]

Thank you for your GREAT answers.

Partner and I figured out to do just as you suggested.

 

What if after 2NT transfer is to Spades. Would you use 3NT as super-accept or would it be 4 Clubs? We can see 4 clubs if opener has Ace of clubs and using 3NT if he doesn't.

 

Lastly you said 7 controls, could you list the 7?

 

Thanks again

There are several systems for super accepts, probably the most common is to just bid a side decent 4 card suit with 4 card support and upper range.

 

You can agree to break the transfer with any 4 card support, at which point 3N and 4 of your suit come into play.

 

We actually do something different which works well, eg 2N-3♦-3♠ shows at least Hxx♥, HHxxx♠ (H=AKQ), with 3N/4♥ showing min/max with 4 card support.