Opening in the passout seat

[jerdonald]

BBO forum,

The bidding goes:

 

S W N E

P P P 2S

 

What does the 2S bid show in the passout seat?

 

Jerryd

[yunling]

If you don't play strong twos, then it shows a minimum opening hand with 6+♠.

[awm]

Natural and weak for me, although not garbage. Basically a hand that won't make game opposite a passed partner unless there is a good spade fit, but where I expect a decent chance to go plus. This is about 8-12 hcp and 6♠.

[the hog]

Not 8-12 for me as I prefer not to have minus scores as opposed to a 0. For me this is about 12-16 with a nice 6 card suit.

[whereagles]

Most textbooks define this as a min hand with 6 good spades (10-14 H or thereabouts).

 

If you happen to have a classic preempt in a situation like this, say KQJxxx x Jxx xxx, then opponents have more HCP than our side and failed to open the bidding. Consequently, you should not give them a 2nd chance (just pass).

[awm]

Say you pick up this hand in 4th after three passes:

 

KQJxxx x Kxxx xx

 

Do you think you will make two spades opposite partner's random 10-count?

 

I think you will make quite a bit more often than you go down. This being the case, I want to open this hand. However:

 

1. Opponents may have a big fit in hearts or clubs and I'd prefer they not find it. Opening 2S instead of 1S makes this more likely.

2. If I open 1S I really don't want to hear a 2nt invite from partner, or a 3S invite on doubleton and a random 11, but such a sequence seems likely. Opening 2S avoids this.

[MrAce]

Fwiw, I do not like any of the methods explained above which are way too wide in range for this bid. This should be sort of picture bid.

Imho, whichever range we like to play, it should be something like; 8-10 or 9-11 or 10-12 or 11-13 or 12-14. Why would anyone want to open 2♠ with 14-15-16 hcp and the boss suit is beyond my guess. The higher the minimum hcp is set to the worse it gets in those wide ranges. We all play conventions in order to make things easier and more clear, not the opposite. I would think with 15-16 and boss suit I do not need to have a convention (or w/e we call this) and I would not want to waste the space. I would live with it if it was assigned exactly for this range, but not if it also can be as low as 12 at the same time.

[Cthulhu D]

In the MBC, it is to play with every expectation of making unless you have a totally unexpected spade fit.

 

With my regular partner, I play it similar to MrAce - 10-13 (though the notes say basically 2S is fine for anything when you don't want partner to directly bid game with a 9-10 count and solid support) - but that's in part because we open all 11 counts. We have the slightly wider range to better inform partner's chances of bidding game with a maximum passed hand after the auction 1S-Something-2S which now promises something extra which is the important auction we are trying to add extra definition too.

[jerdonald]

BBO forum,

Thanks for all the replies.

 

Someone told me they play this to mean 6 spades and 16-18 HCP.

 

Is there a way to calculate the percentages of getting 6 of a

major in the passout with 8-12 HCP vs 16-18 HCP?

 

Jerryd

[blackshoe]

BBO forum,

Thanks for all the replies.

 

Someone told me they play this to mean 6 spades and 16-18 HCP.

 

Is there a way to calculate the percentages of getting 6 of a

major in the passout with 8-12 HCP vs 16-18 HCP?

 

Jerryd

There is. I can't remember the details offhand, and it's bedtime so I'm not going to try to work them out, but I can't imagine the chance of the 8-12 hand isn't much greater than the chance of the 16-18.

[MrAce]

BBO forum,

Thanks for all the replies.

 

Someone told me they play this to mean 6 spades and 16-18 HCP.

 

Is there a way to calculate the percentages of getting 6 of a

major in the passout with 8-12 HCP vs 16-18 HCP?

 

Jerryd

 

It's not only about how frequently it comes but also how much of a difference it makes when it comes. 16-18 is an interesting limit. By opening this you may avoid ending in non making 3♠ contracts, which would be reached by natural path. I can't think of anything else. Thus 1♠ then 3♠ must be forcing I guess.

[rhm]

It's not only about how frequently it comes but also how much of a difference it makes when it comes. 16-18 is an interesting limit. By opening this you may avoid ending in non making 3♠ contracts, which would be reached by natural path. I can't think of anything else. Thus 1♠ then 3♠ must be forcing I guess.

I assume standard is that opposite a passed hand rebidding your major shows at least a sound minimum opening as with anything else you would have opened with a weak two.

This inference is important since a passed partner should often invite over such a rebid.

Accordingly when I open 2♠ in third or fourth position I expect my partner never to invite with a balanced maximum.

The only exception might be an infrequent unbalanced maximum hand with a good fit for the major, say ♠xxxx ♥Axx ♦- ♣KJxxxx.

 

In fourth position I would open any hand where I believe my chances are better to make, when my partner holds a balanced hand with a doubleton spade and about one third of the outstanding points.

Whereagles hand KQJxxx x Jxx xxx is borderline. Make it slightly stronger and I would certainly open 2S.

I am not worried that opponents might suddenly compete over 2♠, which is suicidal for them.

 

Rainer Herrmann