Bid this hand with your system

[Wackojack]

I am interested in how the bidding would go playing:

 

1. Acol 12-14 no trump with and without Crowhust

2. SA 15-17 5542 or 5533 with:

simple 2♣ check back;

new minor forcing;

2-way check back;

transfer Walsh.

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sqj987haj854d5ct8&n=sthkqt6dajt2cak65]133|200[/hv]

 

It is MP pairs btw if that influences your decision.

 

If South opens 1♣ there may or may not be an overcall of 1♦by East. I am particularly interested in how Acol players would bid this.

 

Thank you in advance

[Cyberyeti]

"If South opens 1♣" I presume you mean North.

 

We would bid (4M Acol, Crowhurst, even wider range NT than most)

 

1♦-1♠

1N(15-bad 19)-3♥(inv 5-5, all GFs thru 2♣)

4♣(particularly suitable)-4♥

[sfi]

Playing a relatively gadget-free standard american system, I would expect something like:

 

1D - 1S

2C - 2S

2NT - 3H

4H

 

Responder's second action is not clear, but other things seem worse.

[kenrexford]

FWIW, North can show almost his exact hand with a v very natural sequence, with an unbalanced 1D opening.

 

1D unbalanced.

1S.

2NT stiff spade strong.

3D transfer

4C super accept

 

Opener has shown 5 cover cards, 4 hearts, no stiff Ace or King in spades, and a cov in clubs. Opener must have the exact honor combination with 1444 or 1453.

[wanoff]

Similar to Cyber except prefer FG with this much.

So 1♣-1♠-1NT-2♣-2♥-3♥-4♣-4♥

[Cyberyeti]

Similar to Cyber except prefer FG with this much.

So 1♣-1♠-1NT-2♣-2♥-3♥-4♣-4♥

 

If playing Crowhurst, rebid would be at the 3 level, this is maximum so it's a different auction and for us would be 3♣(cheapest applicable 3 level rebid) now would go 3♥ (4SF/looking for stop)-3N(<3 spades, heart stop)-4♥(5-5)

[Jinksy]

Crowhurst is irrelevant. I don't understand the players wanting to rebid 1N - it's not Acol, and I doubt without detailed agreements whether it's good bridge. Do we also treat 0445 as balanced just because P's bid our shortage?

 

My auction playing typical modern English Acol would start

 

1♣* 1♠

2♥ 4♦

 

* I don't mind reversing over 1S, so I'll pick my better minor.

 

After that N has to decide whether he's worth moving, but system is irrelevant at that point.

[Fluffy]

I would bid 1♦-1♠-2♥-3♥. From that point things are not easy because south won't cuebid diamonds on a short.

[Cyberyeti]

Crowhurst is irrelevant. I don't understand the players wanting to rebid 1N - it's not Acol, and I doubt without detailed agreements whether it's good bridge. Do we also treat 0445 as balanced just because P's bid our shortage?

 

My auction playing typical modern English Acol would start

 

1♣* 1♠

2♥ 4♦

 

* I don't mind reversing over 1S, so I'll pick my better minor.

 

After that N has to decide whether he's worth moving, but system is irrelevant at that point.

 

The reason for rebidding 1N is that partner knows you have 5 clubs and 4 hearts when you reverse, so he can happily set clubs with 3, or if he raises hearts, he can assess his club holding for likely discards, we don't have a problem with 0445s as long as they're good enough to reverse.

[Jinksy]

Why is it better to mislead partner about length in a major in which he's specifically expressed interest than in a minor in which he's mildly denied it?

[mgoetze]

transfer Walsh.

Transfer Walsh? I would open a 4144 or a 4414 1♣ playing T-Walsh but not a 1444, so Transfer Walsh doesn't really figure into it. The bidding starts 1♦-1♠ (assuming North opens, which you didn't really specify), and there are at least half a dozen different schemes for opener's rebid if 1♦ promised an unbalanced hand, so it pretty much diverges from there.

[Finch]

Acol: 1H - 4H

SA: 1NT - some response indicating invitational with both majors - 4H

 

 

The one thing I wouldn't do is open 1D and rebid 2C. Almost any other start to the auction gets to 4H.

[Cyberyeti]

Why is it better to mislead partner about length in a major in which he's specifically expressed interest than in a minor in which he's mildly denied it?

 

Because K is roughly equivalent to (and sometimes better than) xx in terms of what it will do for partner's suit so long as he has honours, so he will judge OK, consider QJxxx(x) or Axxxx(x) you have approximately the same number of losers with K as xx. If he has a not terrible 6 card suit it will play OK, but you don't want to play opposite a 5 card suit unless it's really good, and opposite AQJxx or QJ10xx I'm very happy with my stiff K.

[MickyB]

We'd start -

 

1C:2C [nat or 17-19 NT; 5S4H 0-11]

2D:3H [iNV+ ask; 5-5 max]

 

If responder had bid 1H to show spades [denying 4 hearts unless GF], then opener would be able to show their hand as clubs+diamonds unbal.

 

I can't be bothered to work out how good slam is, but you can assume that I'd get there if it is a good contract but stop safely in 4H if it's not.

[Cascade]

1♣* 1♠ * or 1♦

1NT 3♥ FG 55

4♣* 4♥ * cue for hearts

[Siegmund]

1♦-1♠, 2♣-2♥, 3♥-4♥ is sufficiently straightforward that I am surprised to see it mentioned less often than several quite strange alternatives. Admittedly it is more appealing if you play FSF-round (as I do) than if you play FSF-game.

 

If you made opener's minor strength wildly lopsided, like x AKQx xxxx AKQx, I would be very sympathetic to a reverse without quite having 4-5 shape.

[Jinksy]

Because K is roughly equivalent to (and sometimes better than) xx in terms of what it will do for partner's suit so long as he has honours, so he will judge OK, consider QJxxx(x) or Axxxx(x) you have approximately the same number of losers with K as xx. If he has a not terrible 6 card suit it will play OK, but you don't want to play opposite a 5 card suit unless it's really good, and opposite AQJxx or QJ10xx I'm very happy with my stiff K.

 

I think you're mixing threads up? I was an advocate of 1N opening on the stiff K hand, but I don't see any reason to rebid NTs just because P bids your singleton.

[mike777]

1d=2h(reverse flannery)

4h?=p

 

4h is a bit conservative but with a stiff in spades and MP I think it is ok.

[Neeresh]

Though this hand could be bid in any system to reach game in ♥s, yet it requires a degree of partnership understanding and bidding style. Undoubtedly hands have a combine game point coverage. Yet the most important things is the shortage in spades opposite only ♠QJxxx (Almost no wastage).

 

In my opinion this hand could easily be bid accurately in any system which either plays Multi 2D with 4441 (17-19 HCP)included or has the ability to show both majors min 5-4 (if 5-4 then ♠are 4 and ♥are 5) or 5-5.

Here at our club in Varanasi (India) we play both and can show it either ways.

 

1. 1♣or 1♦---- 2♥ (shows 5-4 in majors, 7-9 hcps)

. ---- 2♠ (shows 5-4 in majors, 10-11 hcps)

 

While playing Multi 2D which includes a)either a weak 6 carder major or b)4441, 17-19 hcps or c)strong acol type hand in any minor the bidding goes;

 

1. 2♦(alerted) ----- 2♥(forced relay,alertable)

2NT (alerted, 4441) ----- 3♣(relay to show the short suit)

3♥short♠ ----- ? (Simply 4♥ or slam interest)

I think this the tricky place where the responder has to calculate precisely whether explore slam or should be content with game only. If the opener has a hand like ♠x ♥KQxx ♦AKxx ♣AKxx the slam is on. With the given hand a lot of guess is to be made and responder should be content with game.

[Neeresh]

I am interested in how the bidding would go playing:

 

1. Acol 12-14 no trump with and without Crowhust

2. SA 15-17 5542 or 5533 with:

simple 2♣ check back;

new minor forcing;

2-way check back;

transfer Walsh.

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sqj987haj854d5ct8&n=sthkqt6dajt2cak65]133|200[/hv]

 

It is MP pairs btw if that influences your decision.

 

If South opens 1♣ there may or may not be an overcall of 1♦by East. I am particularly interested in how Acol players would bid this.

 

Thank you in advance

 

Though this hand could be bid in any system to reach game in ♥s, yet it requires a degree of partnership understanding and bidding style. Undoubtedly hands have a combine game point coverage. Yet the most important things is the shortage in spades opposite only ♠QJxxx (Almost no wastage).

 

In my opinion this hand could easily be bid accurately in any system which either plays Multi 2D with 4441 (17-19 HCP)included or has the ability to show both majors min 5-4 (if 5-4 then ♠are 4 and ♥are 5) or 5-5.

Here at our club in Varanasi (India) we play both and can show it either ways.

 

1. 1♣or 1♦---- 2♥ (shows 5-4 in majors, 7-9 hcps)

. ---- 2♠ (shows 5-4 in majors, 10-11 hcps)

 

While playing Multi 2D which includes a)either a weak 6 carder major or b)4441, 17-19 hcps or c)strong acol type hand in any minor the bidding goes;

 

1. 2♦(alerted) ----- 2♥(forced relay,alertable)

2NT (alerted, 4441) ----- 3♣(relay to show the short suit)

3♥short♠ ----- ? (Simply 4♥ or slam interest)

I think this the tricky place where the responder has to calculate precisely whether explore slam or should be content with game only. If the opener has a hand like ♠x ♥KQxx ♦AKxx ♣AKxx the slam is on. With the given hand a lot of guess is to be made and responder should be content with game.

[damitall]

Playing any system the contract of 4H is easy to reach.Playing Precision it goes 1C-1D-1S-P

1Nt-P-4H All pass.

Playing Old Fashioned Goren it simply goes 1H-4H.

[helene_t]

1♦-1♠

2♣-2♠

2NT-4♥

[Cyberyeti]

I think you're mixing threads up? I was an advocate of 1N opening on the stiff K hand, but I don't see any reason to rebid NTs just because P bids your singleton.

 

Correct on the mixing threads up.

 

Much of the same logic applies though, the reverse shows 5 in the minor categorically, and all subsequent bidding is based on that. Partner knows I may only have 1 spade for the 1N rebid although that is rare, and often will find that out for definite later, and the 10 may well not be worthless if he does go back to spades. I'm not starting 1♦-1♠-2♣ as partner might well pass that with what he thinks is a misfitting heap like xxxxx, Axxx, x, J10x.

[Zelandakh]

As has been pointed out, this hand can be bid in any number of ways depending on the flavour of Acol and the willingness to bend the rules for reverses. If North shows hearts at any point it is easy. If South bids diamonds then clubs then sfi's auction would also work despite Frances' reservations to this approach. My own system auction will depend on whether the North hand gets treated as 17 or 18.

 

If 17 then:

 

1♦ = up to 17, unbal, 4+ diamonds

... - 1♠ = nat, non forcing

1NT = 4 hearts

... - 3♥ = nat invite (hand improved by fit)

4♥

 

If 18 then:

 

1♣ = 15-17 nat/bal or 18+ any

... - 1♦ 0 most non-GF hands

1♠ = 18+ 3-suited or unbal GF

... - 1NT = max

2♣ = 3-suited

... - 2♦ = relay

2♥ = short spade

... - 2♠ = relay

2NT = min (~18-21)

... - 3♣ = relay

3♦ = 1444, min (~18-19)

... - 3♥ = relay

4♦ = 6 controls

... - 4♥

[msjennifer]

So simple when playing Goren ! one heart -- 4 hearts.