Am I Going Crazy

[eagles123]

System = 4 card major, 12-14 NT

 

Game = imps

 

what do you open?

 

[hv=pc=n&n=skhqj3dakj3c76532]133|100[/hv]

 

many thanks,

 

Eagles

[Jinksy]

Yeurgh. I hate opening 1N on singletons unless it's specifically systemic, and even more so with 5431s, but if ever I saw a balanced 5431, this is it.

[EricK]

INT seems the least of all evils. But I hope I'd be understanding if partner chose either 1♦ or 1♣.

[whereagles]

Where I live the opening is 1♣, followed by a 1NT or 2♣ rebid depending on style.

[PhantomSac]

Where I live the opening is 1♣, followed by a 1NT or 2♣ rebid depending on style.

 

I wonder where one lives where their options are to open 1C and rebid 2C on 7xxxx, or to open 1C and rebid 1N showing 15-17 with a poor 14 and a stiff. Hell?

[chasetb]

I think the only two options are to open 1NT or to open 1♦ followed by 2♣ rebid. Honestly, I would never be in a serious partnership with anyone who opens this 1♣.

[Trump Echo]

1 ♦

[helene_t]

With this particular hand it is no problem because both opening 1NT, and opening 1♦ followed by 2♣, are fine.

 

But make it x-KJxx-AKx-Qxxxx and you have a problem.

 

IMO such a hand should rebid 1NT. It can't be right to make the cheapest rebid (1NT) so specific (15-17 with 2335, 3325, 3235 or 3334) while the 2♣ rebid shows a much larger group of hands, in particular many hands that would prefer to end the auction in 1NT.

 

Of course you can't rebid 1NT without discussion. But defining the 1NT rebid as an 11-17 catch-all would IMO be better, not only because it would allow you to suggest 1NT as a final contract with this hand but also because it would make the reverses and 3♣ rebids more well-defined.

[Nabooba]

1D and rebid 2C.

[Cyberyeti]

I overbid slightly, I open 1♣, I raise either red suit to 2, I rebid 1N over 1♠. I can live with opening 1♦ and rebidding 1N or 2♣ as it gets the right lead, if I open 1N, partner will have Jxxxx, xxx, x, KQxx and 2♠ might not be the best spot.

[mike777]

I overbid slightly, I open 1♣, I raise either red suit to 2, I rebid 1N over 1♠. I can live with opening 1♦ and rebidding 1N or 2♣ as it gets the right lead, if I open 1N, partner will have Jxxxx, xxx, x, KQxx and 2♠ might not be the best spot.

 

agree that passing a wk 1nt may be an option with that responder hand

[Jinksy]

I overbid slightly, I open 1♣, I raise either red suit to 2, I rebid 1N over 1♠. I can live with opening 1♦ and rebidding 1N or 2♣ as it gets the right lead, if I open 1N, partner will have Jxxxx, xxx, x, KQxx and 2♠ might not be the best spot.

 

Rebidding 1N on this playing regular Acol is awful. Even having opened it a weak NT, it might be the first 14 count I've seen in living memory that I wouldn't accept a game invite on.

 

If P has 5 spades, one of them will prob be a high honour, which will make your K worth something. I'd rather play in 2S opposite a randomly dealt 5-card S suit than in 3N opposite a randomly dealt 9 or 10 (or 11) count. Rebid 1N and you'll find yourself getting put in three opposite such as these:

 

QJxxx Kx xxx KQx

AJxx Kxx xxxx Qx

AQJx xxxx Qxx xx

Qxxxx Kxxx Qx Kx

JTxx Axxx xx AJx

 

They all seem like terrible games. Can you even construct a perfect 9 count P can have where the opps don't bid and game is a solid proposition? It's quite a challenge.

[Jinksy]

With this particular hand it is no problem because both opening 1NT, and opening 1♦ followed by 2♣, are fine.

 

But make it x-KJxx-AKx-Qxxxx and you have a problem.

 

IMO such a hand should rebid 1NT. It can't be right to make the cheapest rebid (1NT) so specific (15-17 with 2335, 3325, 3235 or 3334) while the 2♣ rebid shows a much larger group of hands, in particular many hands that would prefer to end the auction in 1NT.

 

Of course you can't rebid 1NT without discussion. But defining the 1NT rebid as an 11-17 catch-all would IMO be better, not only because it would allow you to suggest 1NT as a final contract with this hand but also because it would make the reverses and 3♣ rebids more well-defined.

 

Why wouldn't this logic apply playing strong NT? Give the hand above the QH and you seem to have a similar dilemma.

[whereagles]

I wonder where one lives where their options are to open 1C and rebid 2C on 7xxxx, or to open 1C and rebid 1N showing 15-17 with a poor 14 and a stiff. Hell?

 

Sorry, I wasn't too clear. I meant around here options are 1C-1x-1NT (12-14) and 1C-1x-2C. Obviously, playing a 12-14 1NT the 1st auction is a direct 1NT opening.

[kontoleon]

The only system i knaw is standar american so i just said 1c.(orening the longest suit).

But this system is 15-17 1nt AND 5 card major...

 

I Thing you play Modern Acol, so ignore my post

[helene_t]

Why wouldn't this logic apply playing strong NT? Give the hand above the QH and you seem to have a similar dilemma.

Yes but playing strong NT you can rebid 1NT with this hand without having discussed it - you just pretend to have a balanced hand. At least you are honest about your strength.

 

Playing weak NT you can play a wide-ranging 1NT rebid but you need agreements about how responder can ask.

[gszes]

1NT since opening a minor and rebidding 1n shows 15 17 much better to lie a tad

about having 2 spades--no system is perfect:)

[Jinksy]

Yes but playing strong NT you can rebid 1NT with this hand without having discussed it - you just pretend to have a balanced hand. At least you are honest about your strength.

 

Playing weak NT you can play a wide-ranging 1NT rebid but you need agreements about how responder can ask.

 

Hm? If you have x-KQJx-AKx-Qxxxx and it goes 1C 1S / in a strong NT system, a 1N would still lie about your strength.

[bdegrande]

1♦. It directs the lead you want if the opponents buy the hand and even if partner later expects you to have a five card suit after rebidding 2♣, AKJX won't be too disappointing.

[MatthiasK]

Hm? If you have x-KQJx-AKx-Qxxxx and it goes 1C 1S / in a strong NT system, a 1N would still lie about your strength.

 

I don't think so. Partner bids your singleton, your long suit is weak, the points are in the short suit ...

this hand is not worth 15 hcp now, IMHO.

[awm]

I'm always disappointed when the thread title is "Am I Going Crazy?" and there is a poll, and "Yes" is not one of the options.

 

There is a difference between opening 1NT, and rebidding 1NT. When you produce the auction 1m-1♠-1NT, partner will know that you do not have four spades (you would raise) and depending on style you might have raised on some hands with three spades also. So he will only rebid his spades again if he has six, or perhaps five good ones with some shape. This makes it fairly safe to rebid 1NT with a singleton in partner's spade suit. However, opening 1NT is different, because now partner will bid (or transfer to) spades holding any five-card spade suit, since he has the possible upside of finding you with four spades (or three good spades and a side small doubleton).

 

Since you are playing weak notrump, opening 1♣ and rebidding 1NT with this hand would show 15-17 (huge overbid on these cards, which are worse than a typical 14 because of the location of values). My experience is that opening 1NT with a singleton major usually leads to very poor results, so I will open 1♦ on this one and rebid 2♣ if partner bids the expected 1♠. In general I'm not a fan of reversing my suit order like this, but the alternatives (open 1NT with a singleton, bid and rebid clubs on five to the seven) seem worse.

[Trumpsrule]

Mine is one diamond. The main key with Acol bidding is you guarantee the re-bid unless you bid NT( assume P has only 1 bid, the 1spade bid. 1n is incorrect a singleton and P transfers and passes a 5-1 fit now, terrible result(there are systems allowing this but usually it's a stng NT style so less risk). 1c-1s-1nt is an incorrect bid- too few points. 1c-1s-2c correct but do you really want to be in a 5-2 fit with no club honours? You also really have to bid with these points. There is a semi rule- never lie about majors --therefore-- I play 1d-1s-2c as showing minimum 4-4 with opening points. This allows minimum points to be shown, Pass or correct and both your suits now known with no lie in the majors. On the whole I think the best bid with your lie being the smallest possible.

[ayebee]

Hard cases make bad law. This hand is not easy with standard acol but beware of changing your system to fit this hand. You may create more problems that you solve.

 

Face it, this is not a good 14 count. the king of spades very likely won't pull it's weight and deduct another point for the club bus tickets and you have a hand barely strong enough for a 12-14 opener let alone a rebid showing 15-17 points.

 

Open 1NT and partner is highly likely to take out into spades - worst case with nil points and a suit similar to your clubs.

 

Open 1c and then what? You really don't want to revid such an anemic suit. You are happy if partner responds 1D or 2C but over 1H raising to 2H is likely to get you too high as partner will assume you have four.

Over 1S 1NT is an overbid. Play of a no trump contract will be difficult as spades will be blocked. 2c is feeble and may lead to a missed game if partner is strong.

 

The best feature of your hand is the diamond suit so if you bid at all why not bid it. If you lose the auction at least partner knows what to lead. You intend to rebid clubs to show the essentially two suited nature of the hand. Granted you risk playing in a 4-2 fit in diamonds as partner will take you for 5-5 or 5-4 but at least you will have the top honours.

 

But have you considered passing?. Game is likely to be out of reach unless partner has an opening hand. You know that spades split badly if the opposition bid them

and your short suited honours look more defensive than offensive.

[Cyberyeti]

As an aside, this is one of the few good hands for a style I hate which is played by a number of Acol club pairs where a 1N rebid is wide range but overlaps the weak NT so is 12-16 or similar with implications for shape when in the lower range (often a stiff in pd's suit).

[Jinksy]

I don't think so. Partner bids your singleton, your long suit is weak, the points are in the short suit ...

this hand is not worth 15 hcp now, IMHO.

 

Then give it an extra point or two outside Cs. Eventually you're going to run into the same problem (and if it's not strong enough for a strong NT, it's not strong enough to reverse).