movingon Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 Partner opens 1S in second seat. Is this hand good enough for a 2/1, or > do you bid a forcing Nt?>> Q10> KQ42> 2> A108732> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broze Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 2C GF. Will lead to much better auctions and you with be forcing game opposite a 2s, 2h, or 2c rebid anyway if you start with 1n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 2C GF. Will lead to much better auctions and you with be forcing game opposite a 2s, 2h, or 2c rebid anyway if you start with 1n Would partner open 1♠ with ♠ AK432♥ 432♦ K5432♣ void Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broze Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 Yep. And if he has that we'll be unlucky. OP didn't specify form of scoring but I'm assuming IMPs. I would take the low road at MPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broze Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 You can't always bid worrying that partner is going to have the worst hand possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 The question depends on whether 2/1 is a game force. If it is a game force, responder doesn't have one, no matter how many posts someone makes insisting he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 The question depends on whether 2/1 is a game force. If it is a game force, responder doesn't have one, no matter how many posts someone makes insisting he does.+1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
movingon Posted September 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 and, yes, the 2/1 bid would be absolutely game forcing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 The question depends on whether 2/1 is a game force. If it is a game force, responder doesn't have one, no matter how many posts someone makes insisting he does.If it's not GF, there wouldn't be a point to the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wank Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 2♣ is only a modest overbid and i'll make it because it leaves me in a better position for the rest of the auction. for example, i don't want to get to the NTs first with this hand. it's not unlikely we can make 3nt by p's hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broze Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 The question depends on whether 2/1 is a game force. If it is a game force, responder doesn't have one, no matter how many posts someone makes insisting he does. Nothing like healthy debate! Obviously responder is short of a game force otherwise there would be no problem. Does that mean he can't overbid in order to solve other problems that may arise in the auction? Of course not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 The thing is: Responder doesn't need to overbid at this precise moment. The forcing NT can consist of many unbalanced hands, and even some game forcing balanced ones if we choose. After a FNT start, with this hand, we have flexibility to ugrade or downgrade as the auction proceeds. 2S..would probably make a simple invite to 3S, but might try 4 myself.2H..on to game in hearts.2D..downgrade at 2S? Opener will make a third bid most of the time when we belong in game.2C..would get froggie and suggest slam.2N(18-19)..3C now would be natural, unbalanced by inference, and slammish. With more balance would just bid 3N..with less strength would have bid 3C the first time. There is a slight worry that, if we end in NT it will be wrong sided; but the continuation plans are comfortable enough to offset that drawback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 2C..would get froggie and suggest slam.A little much to suggest slam. It would be nice if spades were the unbid major here and we could bid the "impossible" 2♠, but we can't. 3♣, while an underbid, is probably enough. Let's not get carried away, and let's not eliminate the possibility of playing in 3NT. 3♣ is about right in terms of values, it just understates our club support (and that is an understatement). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 This is a very nice hand but I will still start with 1nt given how light people open today. fwiw I play a rather wide ranging 1ntf. IF pard rebids 2s I will make a splinter bid of 4d which if anything is an underbid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve2005 Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 If p bids 2♦ over your GF 2♣ you won't be able to put on the brakes and don't have a GF hand. But if you use forcing 1N you can always go to game, signoff in 2♠ or invite if that is your preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
movingon Posted September 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 Now how about this one: "In deciding whether to respond with a game forcing 2/1 bid, add 1 point for a 5 card suit and 2 points for a 6 card suit?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 1NT for me. I don't understand the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 1NT for me. I don't understand the problem.Not true. YOU do understand the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 Now how about this one: "In deciding whether to respond with a game forcing 2/1 bid, add 1 point for a 5 card suit and 2 points for a 6 card suit?"Marty Bergen would, I think, evaluate this as a bad 12 points. 11 HCP, two points for the club length, subtract a point for Q doubleton in spades. Bad 12s should not force to game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 2C GF. Will lead to much better auctions and you with be forcing game opposite a 2s, 2h, or 2c rebid anyway if you start with 1n 1♠ 1NT2♠ 4♠ 1♠ 1NT2♣ 4♦ 1♠ 1NT2♦ 2NT 1♠ 1NT2♥ 4♦ Seem like pretty good auctions to me. I'd bid 1NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damitall Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 I do not think that this hand has to force a game unless and until we hear partners rebid.The hands may turn out to ba misfit after that.A bid of forcing one trump may also prove to discover misfits and then we can sign of in 2Spades.If parner rebids 2S then we know a six carder suit and a decent hand(since he did not open 2S.).I dont think it is sensible to play ALL 2/1 as game forcing.In this respect the old fashioned way i.e.2/1 is forcing only upto 2NT or 3 of a suit was excellent.Let us say ,1S-2C-2any-2S is forcing for one round as 2NT level has not been reached.1S-2C-2S-3S is a game force and not invitational as responder would have bid not 2C but 3S to show that type of hand.Looking at Q10 of spades I am not ashamed to bod 4S if openers rebid is 2 Spades.Any rebid except 2D is easy to tackle.With all this in mind I feel the old fashioned non game forcing bid of 2C is superior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
movingon Posted September 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 1♠ 1NT2♠ 4♠ 1♠ 1NT2♣ 4♦ 1♠ 1NT2♦ 2NT 1♠ 1NT2♥ 4♦ Seem like pretty good auctions to me. I'd bid 1NT. I like this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 Marty Bergen would, I think, evaluate this as a bad 12 points. 11 HCP, two points for the club length, subtract a point for Q doubleton in spades. Bad 12s should not force to game.Should you really subtract a point for Qx when it's in partner's suit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdegrande Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 2♣. You have a six card suit, a good four card suit, a ruffing value, a control in every side suit, and the doubleton Q in partner's suit does not deserve to be downgraded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 Yep. And if he has that we'll be unlucky. OP didn't specify form of scoring but I'm assuming IMPs. I would take the low road at MPs. As I prefer + to - scores, I would bid 1NT. I seriously do not understand a 2C bid. Bidding 1NT does NOT mean that we cannot play in game.Sorry but I think th standard of bidding on this site is quite poor for many players.To say bid 2C to solve a problem is absurd. This hand type is not that uncommon. If this is a problem for you I suggest to change the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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