Minor Suit Transfers over 2N openings and rebids

[steve2005]

Over strong 2N openings and rebids these items which am considering changing in a 2/1 system. Currently:

 

3♣ - Puppet Stayman, 3♠ - Minor Suit Stayman, 5♣ - Super Gerber

 

4♣ - transfer to ♦ and a least a mild slam try [4N-negative possibly to play, 4♦ good hand for slam (4♥ is now RKC) other bids are cuebids]

 

4♠ - transfer to ♣ and a least a mild slam try [4N-negative possibly to play, 5♣ good hand for slam, possible to go higher which forces slam]

 

Want to use:

 

3N - transfer to ♣ and a least a mild slam try [4N-negative possibly to play, 4♣ good hand for slam (4♦ is now RKC) other bids are cuebids]

 

4♣ - transfer to ♦ remains same

 

Now if you just want to sign-off in 3N you have to use Puppet Stayman.

 

4♠ - would have no meaning, so is available for use

 

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Now the disadvantages are:

 

You might forget convention and just bid 3N

 

Your giving information away by bidding Puppet Stayman unnecessarily, which could occur if 22(45) no 3-card major or (4333) and no ruffing potential.

 

Advantages:

 

investigating ♣ slams done lower

 

possible use for 4♠

 

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Thoughts?

[ArtK78]

I use Puppet Stayman and 4 suit transfers. It is a lot simpler.

[helene_t]

3s -> clubs

4c-> diamonds

No need for minor suit stayman. We need a way to find a minor suit fit after puppet anyway

[Zelandakh]

I also use what Helene wrote. 2NT - 4♠ is range ask Baron, freeing up 4NT as a puppet to 5♣ (and hence 5♣ is a puppet to 5♦). That essentially means that every response from 4♣ to 5♣ is a transfer in addition to 3♦, 3♥ and 3♠. The 3♠ club transfer has all of the 1-suited slam hands plus 5-5 minors. (31)(45) hands are handled using the specialist sequences 2NT - 3♣; 3♦ - 4M so they do not need to be included in 3♠.

[whereagles]

Best scheme I've seen so far for minors is Forrester's one

 

2NT ..??

 

3♠ = transfer to 3NT. To play or slammish.

4m = slam try in linked major

4M = to play (hand hogging mechanism)

 

Now

 

2NT 3♠

3NT ??

 

4♣ = 5♣-4♦ slammish. Opener bids 4♦ fit (cues ensue), 4M club fit + cue, 4NT misfit!!!, 5m fit no slam interest.

4♦ = 4♣-5♦ slammish. Opener bids 4M fit in the linked minor, 4NT misfit, 5m fit no slam interest.

4M = slammish 6+ in linked minor. Opener can bid 4NT as RKCB (teams) or bad hand for slam/to play (pairs).

4NT = slammish 55 minors, but not forcing.

5♣ = slammish 55 minors, forcing. Opener bids 5♦ fit looking for 7, 5M club fit looking for grand slam, 5NT = yucky hand in context.

 

You can add also 44 hands stuff:

 

2NT 3NT = baron

 

This is an anti-mnemonic convention, though... someone is bound to forget it at some stage.

[Zelandakh]

Why do you find it better to bid 2NT - 3♠; 3NT - 4NT as a slam try with 5-5 minors rather than 2NT - 3♠; 4♣ or 2NT - 3♠; 3NT - 4♦♥♠? Or 2NT - 3♠; 3NT - 4M rather than 2NT - 3♠; 4♣/2NT - 3♠; 3NT - 4♣ or 2NT - 4♣ for that matter? It is true that you are 2 steps lower on the 5-4 minor hands but that comes at the cost of not being able to find a 5-3 major suit fit. And that is without weighting the issue of not being able to have the auction 2NT - 3NT. Perhaps there is more to it but I am unconvinced this is "the best scheme" from this snippet.

[whereagles]

That is the scheme as I learned it from Forrester's "TRS" pamphlet (a semi-forcing pass system). If you can improve on it without messing up stuff, I'd be delighted :)

[helene_t]

We tried for a while playing semi-forcing pass in response to a 2NT opening but it didn't work so well.

[Zelandakh]

That is the scheme as I learned it from Forrester's "TRS" pamphlet (a semi-forcing pass system). If you can improve on it without messing up stuff, I'd be delighted :)

Well I have posted the basics of my scheme a few times - you will have to tell me whether it is an improvement for you! B-) There was a thread a while back in which Adam, CY and a few others also posted their 2NT response structures, so if you can find that one you can compare a whole bunch of possibilities all at once.

[Vampyr]

I like 3♠ "please bid 3NT", over which 4m is the longer or better minor in a two-suited hand, and 4M is single-suited in the corresponding minor. Direct 3NT is Baron, but in my experience it never comes up, so you can use it for whatever you want; even to ly with no minor-suit interest.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

For what it is worth...

Here's a structure from the May 2006 ACBL Bulletin :

 

2NT - 3S! = relay to 3NT

3NT - ?? then:

........ Pass = to play, ( Needed since direct 3N is major 44 )

........ 4C = slam try in clubs

........ 4D = slam try in diam

........ 4H = ♥ splinter, both minors

........ 4S = ♠ splinter, both minors

........ 4N = invitational to 6N ( both minors , no shortness?? 4/4, 4/5 or 5/4 )

........ 5N = forcing to 6N, invitational to 7N

[whereagles]

There was a thread a while back in which Adam, CY and a few others also posted their 2NT response structures, so if you can find that one you can compare a whole bunch of possibilities all at once.

 

Linkie? :)

[kenrexford]

Here's another idea:

 

3♠ shows one or both minors, slam interest.

 

Opener's usual responses are to indicate which minor he would prefer if Responder has 5-5 in the minors. Opener bids 3NT with diamond preference or 4♣ with club preference.

 

If Opener prefers diamonds (bids 3NT), Responder can bid 4♣ with the club one-suiter. With either the diamond one-suiter or the minor two-suiter, diamonds are agreed. Responder can bid 4♥ as kickback, 5♦ as a mild non-descript invite, or can make a shortness bid (4♠, 4NT for hearts, or 5♣ for clubs) as another slam try.

 

If Responder hears 3NT (diamond preference) but has 2-2-4-5, he can bid 4♦, which does not agree diamonds, with clubs still in the picture.

 

If Opener, instead, bids 4♣ (prefers clubs), 4♥ agrees clubs and is Kickback, 4♠ is a shortness try, 4NT is shortness in hearts, and 5♣ is shortness in diamonds. There is no generic try.

 

What can go wrong?

 

1. Opener has 4522 or 5422? Yeah, right.

 

2. Responder has 2254 and Opener prefers clubs? Responder pre-anticipates this problem and bids instead 4♠ directly over 2NT with 2254.

[antonylee]

A reasonably simple scheme, that keeps 2N-3N as natural: 3S=C or C+D, 4C=D

 

2N-3S-...

... 3N: not interested

... ... 4C: C+D, not interested in cues

... ... ... 4D: still not interested

... ... ... ... 4H: RKC for D

... ... ... higher: interested, direct RKC response for D

... ... 4D: RKC for C

... ... 4M: (21)55, (30)55 splinter, interested in a cue in the other major

... 4C: interested

... ... 4D: RKC

... ... higher: cue

... higher: cue

 

2N-4C-...

... 4D: not interested

... ... 4H: RKC

... higher: direct RKC response for D (or cue, depending on your preferred style)

[Zelandakh]

Linkie? :)

Sorry I cannot find the specific thread. I did find a fairly detailed write-up of my responses though so that will have to do. I don't think I changed anything in the last 2 years.

[whereagles]

Thx. I'll have a look.

[rhm]

Best scheme I've seen so far for minors is Forrester's one

 

2NT ..??

 

3♠ = transfer to 3NT. To play or slammish.

4m = slam try in linked major

4M = to play (hand hogging mechanism)

 

Now

 

2NT 3♠

3NT ??

 

....

 

My guess is using this approach when the bidding starts

 

2NT 3♠

 

that I will have no intention of bidding past 3NT at least 9 times out of 10.

 

A few times times the bidding will continue

 

2NT 3♠ (DBL)

p 3NT

 

Opening leader leads a spade, 3NT is down.

In the other room opening leader led a heart after 2NT - 3NT and 3NT made

 

Next time the bidding goes

 

2NT 3♠

3NT pass

 

Opening leader had a close decision between the majors. He led a heart and 3NT went down

In the other room opening leader led a spade and the contract made.

 

Is it all worthwhile?

 

Rainer Herrmann

[whereagles]

@Rainer: after having played the method for many years I can say it only mattered once.

 

If it bothers a player, she can always keep 2NT-3NT as natural.

[lowerline]

An alternative is:

• Keep 3nt to play
• Use 4♣/♦ as major suit transfers
• Use 4♥/♠ as minor suit transfers

Continuation after minor suit transfer:

• 2nt-4♥ then 4♠ interest; 4nt no interest, no fit; 5♣ no interest, but fit
• 2nt-4♠ then 4nt no interest, no fit; 5♣ interest; 5♦ no interest, but fit

[Vampyr]

I use a method sort of similar to Forrester's, where over 3NT 4m is a two-suited minor hand, where m is longer or better, and 4M is a single-suited slam try in the linked minor.

[Kungsgeten]

I use:

 

3♣ = Stayman (not puppet). May be bid with a minor single-suiter (bids 4m next or 4♠ with diamonds over a 3NT rebid, where 3NT shows both majors).

3red = Transfer

3♠ = Asks for a 5 card suit, slam interest (usually balanced). If opener responds 3NT (no five card suit) then you bid 4 card suits up the line ala Baron.

3NT = To play

4m = Both minors, slam interest with better/longer suit

4M = Natural slam try, forcing

4N = Quantitative

5m = Natural slam try, non-forcing

[mikestar13]

Kungsgeten,

 

A most interesting method that appears to be quite good, but could you clarify the 3♣ description, I don't quite understand the 4♠ with diamonds bit.

[Kungsgeten]

could you clarify the 3♣ description

 

Sure, here's the full scheme after 3♣:

 

2NT-3♣;

3♦ = No four card major

...3M = Smolen

...3NT = To play

...4m = Natural slam try, does not promise a major

3M = 4 card major, not the other major

...Other major = Slam try in opener's major

...3NT = To play

...4m = Natural slam try, does not promise the other major

...4M = To play

3NT = 4-4 majors

...4♣ = Natural slam try

...4red = Puppet to 4M

...4♠ = Slam try in diamonds