Jinksy Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 [hv=pc=n&s=saq7ht9da9742cqj7&n=skhkj832dkqjt6c95&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=1n(12-14%2C%20may%20be%20any%204441)p2dp2hp3d(5-5%20GF+%2C%20or%206H%204D%20slammy)p3s(D%20cue%2C%20promising%204-5Ds)p5dppp]266|200[/hv] 3N almost cold, 4H has play but is hard to reach (perhaps not possible after the D cue - still thrashing this part of system out). 5D off three cashers. What went wrong? (ETA) Actually 1N 11-14 in that position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 I wouldn't blame anyone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 Soft values in the minors hint at 3NT over 3♦. It's a bit of a guess, of course. But the quacks are probably wasted. 3♠ would be better on something like Axx xx Axxxx AQx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 Difficult, we might be having a different discussion if the N hand had been x, AKxxx, KQJxx, xx and 3N had gone off on a club lead and spade switch, or S had xxxx, Qx, Axxx, AKx and a spade to the ace and spade return had caused them to cash the first 6. I don't like the meaning of 3♠, I think without agreeing anything funkier this should show one black suit stop and deny the other (choose which way round) on a "game before slam" basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 What methods do you have available for 5H4D(31)s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy Posted September 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 What methods do you have available for 5H4D(31)s? Not much. With slam interest we go via a 2♠ range finder followed by Barony stuff at the three level (treating the 5 card suit as 4). With game interest only you'd just xfer and bid 3N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy Posted September 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 Difficult, we might be having a different discussion if the N hand had been x, AKxxx, KQJxx, xx and 3N had gone off on a club lead and spade switch, or S had xxxx, Qx, Axxx, AKx and a spade to the ace and spade return had caused them to cash the first 6. I don't like the meaning of 3♠, I think without agreeing anything funkier this should show one black suit stop and deny the other (choose which way round) on a "game before slam" basis. One possible advantage of the current approach (not really intentional, but that I thought after this hand) is that if opener cues below 3N, responder can bid a naturalish 3N to suggest values in his short suits. Game before slam is all very well, but with either black suit unguarded in the balanced hand, I suspect 4H will have higher expectation than 3N even on a 5-2 fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 Soft values in the minors hint at 3NT over 3♦. It's a bit of a guess, of course. But the quacks are probably wasted. 3♠ would be better on something like Axx xx Axxxx AQx. Exactly. It's best to show no diamond support whatsoever, because partner will work out to move when we sign off with: ♠x ♥AKxxx ♦Kxxxx ♣Ax where seven is on a finesse, or ♠xx ♥ KQJxx ♦KQJxx ♣x Where 3NT goes down. B-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 You might have bid - 1N:2D2H:3D3S:3NP but it's not hard to construct hands where passing with a 5-5 fit works badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy Posted September 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 Soft values in the minors hint at 3NT over 3♦. It's a bit of a guess, of course. But the quacks are probably wasted. 3♠ would be better on something like Axx xx Axxxx AQx. I'm not sure I'd open that a weak NT. Give me a T9 in one of the pointies, or even the TC, and I'd almost certainly upgrade. Expecting it for a cue seems far too demanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 well, make it Axx xx Axxx AJxx then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msjennifer Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 I feel that the 3 Spade bid is usually made,when playing a weak NT,to show no guard in clubs,no 3 card support for hearts and most likely a hand like, AQxx,Qx,Axx,xxxx.Of course this is what I would have gathered and is open to individual partnership agreements,Personally,looking at 109 of hearts(and not xx) there is a uncertainty in ones mind about whether to bid 3 hearts or 3 NT. personally I would bid 3 NT and never 3Spade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Would 3NT over 3♠ not show a non-slammy hand with concentrated values in the red suits for this system? Whether South then sits or not that seems like a decent description. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgillispie Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 [hv=pc=n&s=saq7ht9da9742cqj7&n=skhkj832dkqjt6c95&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=1n(12-14%2C%20may%20be%20any%204441)p2dp2hp3d(5-5%20GF+%2C%20or%206H%204D%20slammy)p3s(D%20cue%2C%20promising%204-5Ds)p5dppp]266|200[/hv] 3N almost cold, 4H has play but is hard to reach (perhaps not possible after the D cue - still thrashing this part of system out). 5D off three cashers. What went wrong? (ETA) Actually 1N 11-14 in that position. IMHO, soft values in clubs are wasted. While the hand has 5[diamonds}, it's now a 10 count after opening the weak NT. I bid 3N/3D. If P has slam interest, he'll cuebid something... (Of interest, what would 3♥ have shown by you in this auction?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinksy Posted September 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 (Of interest, what would 3♥ have shown by you in this auction?) Probably 2-3♥s (given that you didn't superaccept) and probably (♦ - ♥) > 1. Also denies sufficient strength in the black suits for opener to comfortably rebid 1N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gszes Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 this hand is seems more like an evaluation problem than a bidding problem. The south hand should realize that spade Q and club QJ are likely way overvalued in adiamond contract and instead of raising diamonds should be happy with 3n. The northhand should realize that p needs to be near the top of their range to give 5d serious playand bid 4d instead of 5 (it takes about one K more for game in a minor vs (major or nt). System caused 3n to be missed but overbidding to 5 need to be corrected. Picture the varioushcp combinations p may have and you will quite quickly see that we need a fair amount of help from p to make 5d. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
001hans Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Considering 5D with a hand with no aces and opposite a 11-14 NT hand is looking for the (near)-perfect South hand: something like Axx, xx, Axxx(x), Axx(x). With just about any other hand 3NT is a better shot. After 3S (showing D-fit) North should propose 3NT, assuming that partner, with a perfect hand for 5D, will convert 3NT to 5D, or bid 4C with Axx, Qx, Axxxx, Axx, implying that he does not exclude slam-possibilities.HvdH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akwoo Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 What's the form of scoring? I take 3D to be very mildly suggestive of slam. At MPs, I think South should be bidding 3N over 3D. I think South should have 3 of 6 keycards to cue. (I suppose AKx Qx KQxxx xxx is okay.) At IMPs, the slam is more valuable and ending up at 5 of a minor is less bad, so I'm not so sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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