gwnn Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 sitting 3rd seat, favourable@MP's, you pick up: A6K864KQT5952 against reasonable oops at a late-night MP tournament, you see the bidding go like this: 1D-p-1H-2C x-2S-3D-pp-3S-?? 3D was not really the value bid, but what do you do now? Partner is a sound opener. edit: now there are 13 cards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 12 cards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 12 cardsThey are vulnerable at MPs in 3♠, what else do you need to double? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Molyb Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 They are vulnerable at MPs in 3♠, what else do you need to double?A 13th card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovera Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Another topic with 12 cards .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted August 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Ah, I found a club on the floor! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 In my experience RHO has a bunch of weak spades. It's no use to dbl because LHO will pull to 4♣ like 110% of the time, so I'd say 4♦ (3NT risks seeing LHO cashing a bunch of clubs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomSac Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 They are vulnerable at MPs in 3♠, what else do you need to double? I dunno if I had a fifth diamond maybe I would not want to double, it hurts our defensive prospects and helps our offensive prospects. In general I want to have 13 cards before I decide what to do :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinidad Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 3D was not really the value bid, but what do you do now? Partner is a sound opener.- You have told partner your distribution in the red suits. He will expect you to be about 3-2 in the blacks.- You have about an ace more than what my partner would expect you to hold (unless you are playing some form of good/bad 2NT).- We have at least invitational values, you have a balanced hand, the opponents bid at the three level and are not sure of a fit.- We are at favorable @ MPs. I don't care whether the opponents are "reasonable". I double as a strong suggestion to penalize them. I trust that my partner realizes that we have a double fit in the red suits. That means that he shouldn't sit for the double if he has a minimum opening with a lot of diamonds. Is it possible that they make 3♠X when RHO got clever with an eight card spade suit and partner passed with a minimum 2353? I guess it is possible. If so, congratulate he opponents. But I don't think it is a very likely scenario. Rik 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 How come PK has not replied here yet in size 7 font? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted August 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Partner had K97J85AJ97K84 and passed my x. Unfortunately declarer had QJT8532AT76-T5 (giving dummy x Qx xxxxx AQJxx - sorry, I'm posting from my phone) and easily wrapped up 730. My partner thought my x was insane and I whined diplomatically remarked "RHO bid like a joke, what can I do?" RHO disagreed with this assessment but was happy with his score so didn't mind too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovera Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Usually a declaration of this type ( pass then bidding ) denotes an hand like that in post 11(force + distribution : 6/7 p. with 6-4). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahydra Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Usually a declaration of this type ( pass then bidding ) denotes an hand like that in post 11(force + distribution : 6/7 p. with 6-4). I'm not convinced. Not bidding on the first round with this 7-4 hand is somewhat risky; partner with 2 kings and out won't enter the auction, but you're cold for 4S. ahydra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 I am losing confidence in gwnn's law. When opps make stupid bids it can mean that they are in a 4-1 fit but it can also mean that they underbid drastically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 I am losing confidence in gwnn's law. When opps make stupid bids it can mean that they are in a 4-1 fit but it can also mean that they underbid drastically.You are forgetting Csaba's Corrollary - when Gwnn's Law fails it will be against gwnn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovera Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 I'm not convinced. Not bidding on the first round with this 7-4 hand is somewhat risky; partner with 2 kings and out won't enter the auction, but you're cold for 4S. ahydraInfact i intended another thing: what i said is referred to bidding to reach at the end and when part is passed not in this case, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinidad Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 - You have told partner your distribution in the red suits. He will expect you to be about 3-2 in the blacks.- You have about an ace more than what my partner would expect you to hold (unless you are playing some form of good/bad 2NT).- We have at least invitational values, you have a balanced hand, the opponents bid at the three level and are not sure of a fit.- We are at favorable @ MPs. I don't care whether the opponents are "reasonable". I double as a strong suggestion to penalize them. I trust that my partner realizes that we have a double fit in the red suits. That means that he shouldn't sit for the double if he has a minimum opening with a lot of diamonds. Is it possible that they make 3♠X when RHO got clever with an eight card spade suit and partner passed with a minimum 2353? I guess it is possible. If so, congratulate he opponents. But I don't think it is a very likely scenario. RikOf course, I really meant to write: "- You have told partner your distribution in the red suits. He will expect you to be about 3-2 in the blacks. He can decide for himself.- Having an ace more than what my partner would expect is NOT a good reason to double.- We may have at least invitational values, but remember: Points, Schmoints! And you may have a balanced hand, but the opponents won't and obviously have a fit. - We are at favorable @ MPs. But the opponents also saw the vulnerability and they know it is MPs. How stupid do you think they are? Of course, they will make 3♠! Is it possible that they go down in 3♠X when RHO got silly with a six card spade suit and partner passed with a minimum 4342? I guess it is possible. If so, humiliate the opponents. But I don't think it is a very likely scenario." But somehow my keyboard was malfunctioning... ;) Rik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 sitting 3rd seat, favourable@MP's, you pick up: ♠ A 6 ♥ K 8 6 4 ♦ K Q T 5 ♣ 9 5 2against reasonable oops at a late-night MP tournament, you see the bidding go like this:1♦-(_P)-1♥-(2♣) _X-(2♠)-3♦-(_P)_P-(3♠)-??3♦ was not really the value bid, but what do you do now? Partner is a sound opener. Double seems sensible :)Partner had ♠ K 9 7 ♥ J 8 5 ♦ A J 9 7 ♣ K 8 4and passed my x. Unfortunately declarer had ♠ Q J T 8 5 3 2 ♥ A T 7 6 ♦ - ♣ T 5 (giving dummy ♠ x ♥ Q x ♦ x x x x x ♣ A Q J x x - sorry, I'm posting from my phone)and easily wrapped up 730. My partner thought my x was insane and I whined diplomatically remarked "RHO bid like a joke, what can I do?" RHO disagreed with this assessment but was happy with his score so didn't mind too much. Congratulate the dog-walker :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 How come PK has not replied here yet in size 7 font? I'm gonna need a bigger font. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 I don't like the X - I would pass. I don't really like pd's opening on this 9 loser piece of trash. I don't like the 2C overcall. I don't like the way declarer misbid his hand. I don't like being at work today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petterb Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 Partner is a sound opener.Partner had K97J85AJ97K84A sound opener would pass that hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted August 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 Nah. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-AT1_2Qf1xYA/UEax39JNUQI/AAAAAAAAKvs/N1yQKhqYBsw/s400/its_a_trap_star_wars.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 Partner had K97J85AJ97K84 and passed my x. Unfortunately declarer had QJT8532AT76-T5 (giving dummy x Qx xxxxx AQJxx - sorry, I'm posting from my phone) and easily wrapped up 730. My partner thought my x was insane and I whined diplomatically remarked "RHO bid like a joke, what can I do?" RHO disagreed with this assessment but was happy with his score so didn't mind too much.Obviously there is no such thing than RHOs bidding from reasonable opponents. But how can you claim RHO bidding is a joke, when you fell into the trap intended, even though you knew opponents were "reasonable" ?Was that really unfortunate? Rainer Herrmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinidad Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 Obviously there is no such thing than RHOs bidding from reasonable opponents. But how can you claim RHO bidding is a joke, when you fell into the trap intended, even though you knew opponents were "reasonable" ?Was that really unfortunate? Rainer HerrmannCome on, the answers here were pretty unanimous: Double is obvious. When the full deal is shown, you come and say that Gwnn had it coming. A typical case of ROTI (Resulting on the Internet). The description of the opponent's bidding:RHO used an anti-percentage tactic passing initially. LHO made a horrible overcall. RHO made a second anti-percentage bid. His final 3♠ bid could be construed as smart (but I guess it was simply lucky). I would not expect "reasonable" opponents to be this... er ... let's call it ... "imaginative". So, yes, Gwnn was unfortunate. In fact, he was very unfortunate because after his misfortune on this hand, his partner compounded the crime by blaming Gwnn for it. Apart from the misery this created it also means that the next time when a similar auction comes up and his partner holds Gwnn's hand, his partner has committed himself to passing instead of doubling. This means that this next time Gwnn can count on a bottom for 3♠-1 (+100) when the field plays 3♦ making, where Gwnn sh/c/would get a top for 3♠X-1 (+200) if his partner would be a little more flexible and simply accept that $-!t happens at the bridge table. Gwnn's partner should have smiled at Gwnn and give him a meaningful wink of an eye: "The next 7 boards against these guys are going to be ours!". Rik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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