Open - P - or Preempt w 7D and 4C

[leebca]

Not to get anyone's underwear in a bunch, but just to gather opinions, what would you bid (assuming the "Pass" is a bid) with the following:

 

No one vul

RHO is dealer and passed and you hold:

♠x

♥x

♦KQxxxxx

♣KQxx

 

I 'lost' a partner on my decision on how to bid this hand. :( They come and they go!

 

Your opinion, with a supporting explanation, is welcomed. Thanks.

[ahydra]

I would open 3D. (Maybe 4D if at teams, the diamonds are KQ109xxx and I felt aggressive, but we don't really want to pre-empt partner.) We have a high ODR, and are not interested in playing in clubs with a 7-card suit.

 

You can use the term "call" to cover passes, doubles, redoubles and bids (bids being the 1C-7NT part of the bidding box only).

 

ahydra

[Cyberyeti]

I would open 1♦, but I don't expect that to be anything like universal.

[broze]

1♦ for me too. Don't hate pass. Do hate preempting any number of diamonds.

[P_Marlowe]

4D

 

Pass is ok as well, but I would not do it.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[eagles123]

4D is my gut feeling

[gwnn]

I don't like 1D or pass. Normally I like 4D with 7411 but with KQxxxxx it's a bit suspect. Oh well, it's still a much more offensive hand than Kx x KQxxxxx Qxx, so 4D must be it.

[leebca]

Thanks to all who have contributed so far.

 

I would like to add the following analyses:

 

1) HCP is 10; total point count is 12 [10+2 for length] (some players do open hands with a total point count of 12);

 

2) If you subscribe to the rule of 20, this hand totals 21

 

3) This hand has two quick tricks which, by some experts, is a requirement for an opening hand.

 

 

Does any of the above encourage a 1♦ opening bid?

 

 

[Thank you ahydra for "call"]

[gszes]

it is at best 5050 which player will be preempted by our choice of bids.

Not only that, but our p is behind the strongest opp (if there is one).

Doing too much here would seem to damage us a ton more than the opps.

 

3d

 

Our almost defenseless wonder is not a total embarrassment on offense

and getting the primarily 1 suited nature of our hand out of the way

early should pave the way to our best target (unless it is clubs sigh).

 

We force lho to get into the bidding at the 3 level opposite a passed

partner and an unlimited lho (our cho). If p wishes to x the opps we

would have no qualms letting it sit since p should not be expecting

any defense from us and we might actually have some defense in clubs.

 

3D also leaves room for our side to play 3N or 4M and leaves some room for

slam exploration in case it is CHO that has the power for once:))))))))))))

 

I could live with pass though I think that is weak but vastly preferable to 1d

which makes any competitive bidding a total guess since we have so little desire

to defend anything. It is also going to be tough to catch up if we opt to pass.

 

3d = 9 pass = 6 2d weak = 4 4d = 3 1d = 2

[Bbradley62]

I 'lost' a partner on my decision on how to bid this hand. :( They come and they go!

If you chose any of Pass, 1♦, 2♦, 3♦ or 4♦ and partner dropped you solely because of this choice, you're better off without that partner.

[MrAce]

Thanks to all who have contributed so far.

 

I would like to add the following analyses:

 

1) HCP is 10; total point count is 12 [10+2 for length] (some players do open hands with a total point count of 12);

 

2) If you subscribe to the rule of 20, this hand totals 21

 

3) This hand has two quick tricks which, by some experts, is a requirement for an opening hand.

 

 

Does any of the above encourage a 1♦ opening bid?

 

 

[Thank you ahydra for "call"]

 

I would open 4 dia

I have no problem with the hcps to open 1 dia but I do not believe you have anywhere close to 2 quick tricks (which is a term that was created to express the defensive requirement of a one level opener)

Deciding what to open also requires some stategy rather than looking at your hand only, counting the hcps or sending your logic to take a rest by auto piloting the bidding with rule of this and rule of that.

You have 11 cards in minors, not a single hcp in majors. RHO passed but who knows maybe he passed with 6-4 majors and 8 points, or LHO is about to bid his major or majors. My point is, this hand in vacuum may look its close decision between pass-open-preempt, it more often generates better score to preempt. You don't want these opps to start telling their tales with a lot of space available when you are short in both majors. 2nd seat preempts particularly at these colors shows a very good preempt for most pairs.

EDIT: If your decision what to open this hand was the only reason your pd left, it was him who lost a pd, not you.

[gwnn]

If you chose any of Pass, 1♦, 2♦, 3♦ or 4♦ and partner dropped you solely because of this choice, you're better off without that partner.

I agree with the spirit of this post... but 2♦ really is awful.

[gnasher]

I agree with the spirit of this post... but 2♦ really is awful.

Pass is pretty bad too.

[leebca]

. . .but I do not believe you have anywhere close to 2 quick tricks (which is a term that was created to express the defensive requirement of a one level opener)

 

I value the KQ combination as one quick trick. I can't find any (Internet) reference that values the KQ as less than one quick trick, but I'm open to understanding otherwise. Before the Goren point-count system (c. 1910) the trick evaluation was the criteria used to decide on opening a hand (or not). For opening I think this hand holds two quick tricks.

[leebca]

Unless the opening is 3♦ (or less) the option of playing in NT remains. The 4♦ opening would pretty much exclude a game in NT.

 

Kind words from those who might consider the loss of a partner based on this holding and my chosen bid a bit extreme. Alas, it was a pretty much a doomed partnership, since partner seemed to be easily agitated.

[billw55]

I would bid 1♦. Would accept 3♦ or 4♦. Would criticize 2♦ or pass. Would not dump partner for any.

 

Actually would not dump partner for any single occurrence at all. We all have our bad moments.

[Lord Molyb]

1♦ 100% of the time, would not dump partner unless he opened anything above 5♦

[Zelandakh]

1♦ is ok. 3NT as a good 4m preempt is ok if you are playing it. 3♦ and 4♦ are also worth some marks, with the latter looking particularly tempting at MPs (hint: you need to provide the scoring for hands like this).

[the hog]

Not to get anyone's underwear in a bunch, but just to gather opinions, what would you bid (assuming the "Pass" is a bid) with the following:

 

No one vul

RHO is dealer and passed and you hold:

♠x

♥x

♦KQxxxxx

♣KQxx

 

I 'lost' a partner on my decision on how to bid this hand. :( They come and they go!

 

Your opinion, with a supporting explanation, is welcomed. Thanks.

 

Depending on the pips, I would open 4D on this hand. I would never pass, but can live with 3D.With 1-1 in the Ms a pre empt is obvious. I am amused by those who fail to pre empt or are scared of missing 3NT with a 4D preempt. Bridge is a 4 handed game and they appear to be playing with themselves.

[leebca]

Thanks for all the opinions and ideas expressed. You're a good group.

 

As it turns out I opened this hand with 1♦;

LHO Passes! (I think, 'This might be a good sign for our side.')

 

Partner bids 1♥

(No surprise to me here).

 

I bid 2♦;

 

opposition keeps passing.

 

Partner bids 2NT

(Now it's a tough decision for me. Drop partner here, or rebid the diamonds. I think a NT contract might be a challenge, but not impossible. I figure partner has stoppers in the unbid suits, which (the ♣KQ together with the ♦KQ) should give partner entry to my hand to ensure running the diamond suit. But if this reasoning is true, the combined hands have a chance at 3NT. But even this being the case, I thought it best to be sure partner knows my diamonds are long with little outside help, so. . .)

 

I bid 3♦

Partner insists upon NT and bids 3NT.

 

Final contract: 3NT and partner is playing it.

 

 

Partner has 15 HCP with a void in diamonds. Down 2. Partner is very upset with me. "You open with 10 HCP? You can't be serious!" After a few explicatives, we split up.

 

That is the rest of the story! :rolleyes:

[Antrax]

Why not introduce clubs at some point? That's the upside of opening 1♦, I thought.

 

Also, next time tell him that if you're being idiomatic then 3NT should make with 25 combined HCP. Hence, it's probably his declarer play at fault.

[Antrax]

Could you be referring to this hand?

[hv=bbo=y&lin=pn|S,leebca,N,E|st||md|2S46QH2346D7JC39TA%2CS9H58D2346TQKC4QK%2CS25JAH79KD589AC26%2C|rh||ah|Board%2048|sv|e|mb|1D|mb|d|mb|1S|mb|p|mb|2D|mb|p|mb|3N|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|C3|pc|CK|pc|C2|pc|C5|pc|H5|pc|H7|pc|HT|pc|H2|pc|C7|pc|C9|pc|CQ|pc|C6|pc|H8|pc|H9|pc|HJ|pc|H3|pc|S3|pc|S4|pc|S9|pc|SJ|pc|D5|pc|S7|pc|D7|pc|DT|pc|DK|pc|D8|pc|S8|pc|DJ|pc|C4|pc|S2|pc|C8|pc|CT|pc|H6|pc|D2|pc|HK|pc|HA|pc|HQ|pc|H4|pc|D3|pc|S5|pc|CJ|pc|CA|pc|D4|pc|D9|pc|SQ|pc|D6|pc|SA|pc|ST|pc|DA|pc|SK|pc|S6|pc|DQ|]400|300[/hv]

[P_Marlowe]

Thanks for all the opinions and ideas expressed. You're a good group.

 

As it turns out I opened this hand with 1♦;

LHO Passes! (I think, 'This might be a good sign for our side.')

 

Partner bids 1♥

(No surprise to me here).

 

I bid 2♦;

 

opposition keeps passing.

 

Partner bids 2NT

(Now it's a tough decision for me. Drop partner here, or rebid the diamonds. I think a NT contract might be a challenge, but not impossible. I figure partner has stoppers in the unbid suits, which (the ♣KQ together with the ♦KQ) should give partner entry to my hand to ensure running the diamond suit. But if this reasoning is true, the combined hands have a chance at 3NT. But even this being the case, I thought it best to be sure partner knows my diamonds are long with little outside help, so. . .)

 

I bid 3♦

Partner insists upon NT and bids 3NT.

 

Final contract: 3NT and partner is playing it.

 

 

Partner has 15 HCP with a void in diamonds. Down 2. Partner is very upset with me. "You open with 10 HCP? You can't be serious!" After a few explicatives, we split up.

 

That is the rest of the story! :rolleyes:

 

#1 2NT is NF, having 15HCP, facing an opener, making a NF bid is whatever

#2 You never introduced your club suit, a option is instead of bidding 3D, you could bid 3C

although this would accept the game invite, showing a max. for your bidding so far ...

you alway can hide behind the claim, that AAB showes a weaker 6-4 hand, than ABA.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Zelandakh]

Could you be referring to this hand?

Tut, tut Antrax - never let the truth get in the way of a good story!

[eagles123]

Thanks for all the opinions and ideas expressed. You're a good group.

 

As it turns out I opened this hand with 1♦;

LHO Passes! (I think, 'This might be a good sign for our side.')

 

Partner bids 1♥

(No surprise to me here).

 

I bid 2♦;

 

opposition keeps passing.

 

Partner bids 2NT

(Now it's a tough decision for me. Drop partner here, or rebid the diamonds. I think a NT contract might be a challenge, but not impossible. I figure partner has stoppers in the unbid suits, which (the ♣KQ together with the ♦KQ) should give partner entry to my hand to ensure running the diamond suit. But if this reasoning is true, the combined hands have a chance at 3NT. But even this being the case, I thought it best to be sure partner knows my diamonds are long with little outside help, so. . .)

 

I bid 3♦

Partner insists upon NT and bids 3NT.

 

Final contract: 3NT and partner is playing it.

 

 

Partner has 15 HCP with a void in diamonds. Down 2. Partner is very upset with me. "You open with 10 HCP? You can't be serious!" After a few explicatives, we split up.

 

That is the rest of the story! :rolleyes:

 

I wonder if your partner would expect you to pass with

 

 

[hv=pc=n&n=sakqjt98765432hdc]133|100[/hv]